Serious concern: Why were XenForo customers never informed about this alleged internal data leak?

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Do you have a source for such a claim? Because I've read the documents you've pointed people to and nothing mentions anything like that.

I would urge you to read and correctly comprehend what you're reading before making such baseless claims.
Well it does narrow it down then who passed on sensitive customer information without a court order.
 
Do you have a source for such a claim? Because I've read the documents you've pointed people to and nothing mentions anything like that.

I would urge you to read and correctly comprehend what you're reading before making such baseless claims.
So what is it with that part about passing on sensitive customer information without a court order?
Just curious! Because that's what I understood as a backdoor to customer information.
 
So what is it with that part about passing on sensitive customer information without a court order?
Just curious! Because that's what I understood as a backdoor to customer information.
I assume that’d be from XF records, not from logging into random customer XF installs. Your xenforo install admin panel won’t have any sort of customer information in it unless you’ve specifically added it yourself anyways
 
The Presence of an Insider Threat / Confidential Data Leak: The most concerning revelation for XenForo as an organization is found in paragraph 18 of the judgment. Discovery process evidence revealed that a "confidential source who appears to have been working for Xenforo"was directly emailing and leaking sensitive internal client data to the plaintiffs. This insider leaked:
  • The client’s internal hosting IP address.
  • Multiple proprietary XenForo purchase orders spanning 2018 to 2021.
  • Personally identifiable billing data of the customer (real names, postcodes, and private email addresses).

Are these things true? Were the leaks related to this specific case only, or is it possible they were more broad? Could this explain how this member got some of our email addresses, and why XF never even replied to that thread?

To the best of my knowledge all of us in the company are hearing about this for the first time today.

The company is hearing about what for the first time? According to court documents, "Xenforo formally complied with the NPO on 28 June 2023, the day after it was served.".
 
The first time about a "leak".
Well someone is not being truthful here.

Xenforo hails itself as having a fairly small staff, so unless every single person has access to sensitive customer information (which still would remain a small number), that narrows the scope quite a bit.

With such a small staff I struggle to believe that this was some big revelation today.
 
About the NPO? Absolutely not, we were aware of it and replied as the court instructed us.

About someone allegedly leaking data, thats news.
 
I'm the cybersecurity guy for a few financial organizations and online schools.

Xenforo co. allowing someone to look at their client database and giving information on a single client to plaintiffs does not constitute a data breach; well call something a data breach when the data is accessed by an unauthorized person, typically a hostile hacker. And also a data breach implies multiple records ( usually the whole database ) are accessed.

It is not abnormal for any company working with law enforcement to hand over bits of information - they're going to be legally required to do so. This is not considered a data breach either.

Squarewheels doesn't understand what he is talking about and looks like an AI typed most of his response.

The original post is melodramatic and deeply incorrect and not worth forwarding on, it causes alarm when none is needed and you are amplifying that.
 
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I'm the cybersecurity guy for a few financial organizations and online schools.

Xenforo co. allowing someone to look at their client database and giving information on a single client to plaintiffs does not constitute a data breach; well call something a data breach when the data is accessed by an unauthorized person, typically a hostile hacker. And also a data breach implies multiple records ( usually the whole database ) is accessed.

It is not abnormal for any company working with law enforcement to hand over bits of information - they're going to be legally required to do so. This is not considered a data breach either.

Squarewheels doesn't understand what he is talking about and looks like an AI typed most of his response.

Please don't waste people's time with melodramatic and incorrect crap like this.
Ignore the AI generated nonsense, read the actual court document linked, that’s what states that a “confidential source” from XenForo provided personal information about the license holder before there was any court order, and later says XenForo complied with the court order. These are two separate things, the latter being completely normal and a legal requirement, the former being a massive back door exchange of customer information, and a huge privacy issue

[18] Discovery has revealed emails passing between the first plaintiff and a confidential source who appears to have been working for Xenforo, a forum software provider used by Tattle Life until December 2021. The first of these was dated 22 March 2023 but it was clearly preceded by previous email correspondence which has not been located as it is believed to have involved a different email address. The emails indicate the source has identified an IP address said to be hosting the Tattle Life site. The first plaintiff asked if he should proceed with a court order against Xenforo and is advised that he should.



[19] On 14 April 2023, the first plaintiff sent an email to Nardello in the following terms:



"We have an email and an IP address for tattle owners FYI."



[20] Accompanying this email were a series of Xenforo purchase orders, dated between 2018 and 2021, which reveal the name Sebastian Bond, the post code BH** * and two email addresses, 5****@gmail.com and bastian.durward@nestandglow.com.



[21] On 24 April 2023, the first plaintiff emailed his source stating, incorrectly, that his legal team had made an application to court for a production order. Later that same evening the source sent a message as follows:



"So we have a name which is Sebastian Bond. This we believe should match the card which was used to pay for the tattle license including a Poole post code which should match the card billing address."



[22] Shortly thereafter in a further email it was said:



"The existing site is apparently associated with Lime Goss but no such entity exists as far as we can tell. But Sebastian Bond comes up as a director for Yuzu Zest. Maybe a tenuous link but worth looking into."

All of this was before that court order.
 
Sure, it's a privacy issue, you don't want one of your vendors bending to government or lawyers unnecessarily, but let's not call it a data breach is what i'm getting at.

However, I would be concerned with this if your forum's content is substantially illegal or politically contentious.
What is contentious or illegal is not necessarily what is moral and not moral. Governments can change laws on a dime.
In this regard, if that part of the claim is true, then Xenforo may be able to improve how they handle customer data.

But man let's not call this a data breach. Concerning, but nobody's going to put in shifts at the long week factory cleaning up the damage:

HEto1CqXcAA7fyR.webp
 
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About the NPO? Absolutely not, we were aware of it and replied as the court instructed us.
"On 23 June 2023 the court also made a Norwich Pharmacal Order ("NPO") against Xenforo Limited requiring this company to deliver up information in its possession which identified or assisted in identifying the operators of Tattle Life and the proper defendants."

About someone allegedly leaking data, thats news.
Is not "alleged, its was part of discovery

" Discovery has revealed emails passing between the first plaintiff and a confidential source who appears to have been working for Xenforo, a forum software provider used by Tattle Life until December 2021. The first of these was dated 22 March 2023 but it was clearly preceded by previous email correspondence which has not been located as it is believed to have involved a different email address. The emails indicate the source has identified an IP address said to be hosting the Tattle Life site. The first plaintiff asked if he should proceed with a court order against Xenforo and is advised that he should."
 
Sure, it's a privacy issue, you don't want one of your vendors bending to government or lawyers unnecessarily, but let's not call it a data breach is what i'm getting at.

However, I would be concerned with this if your forum's content is substantially illegal or politically contentious.
What is contentious or illegal is not necessarily what is moral and not moral. Governments can change laws on a dime.
In this regard, if that part of the claim is true, then Xenforo may be able to improve how they handle customer data.

But man let's not call this a data breach. Concerning, but nobody's going to put in shifts at the long week factory cleaning up the damage:

View attachment 338328

read the actual court document linked, that’s what states that a “confidential source” from XenForo provided personal information about the license holder before there was any court order, and later says XenForo complied with the court order.
 
Can you point me to where the License Agreement or Privacy Policy says they will not voluntarily share information with law enforcement?

For that matter, vBulletin and Invision, too.

Just another gripe thread.
 
Can you point me to where the License Agreement or Privacy Policy says they will not voluntarily share information with law enforcement?

For that matter, vBulletin and Invision, too.

Just another gripe thread.
read the actual court document linked, that’s what states that a “confidential source” from XenForo provided personal information about the license holder before there was any court order, and later says XenForo complied with the court order.
 
Can you point me to where the License Agreement or Privacy Policy says they will not voluntarily share information with law enforcement?

For that matter, vBulletin and Invision, too.

Just another gripe thread.


XenForo Limited will not sell, distribute or lease your personal information to third parties unless we have your explicit permission or are required by law to do so.

If this information was given before the court order, as alleged, it's a violation of their own privacy policy.
 
None of your quotes address actively cooperating with law enforcement during an ongoing investigation. While it is not explicitly stated, the language can reasonably be interpreted to allow cooperation where they believe there is a lawful basis to do so, even if that does not mean a court order in hand. Perhaps they cooperated, and in order to secure the case, they got the NPO later. I'm unsure how law works there.

Policies like these are meant to say they will not just casually hand over information to random third parties or bad actors.

There is explicit language that you might be accustomed to in agreements with, say Google, that nobody reads, but this isn't the blanket protection you made it out to be.

If you're so concerned, though, maybe you should terminate the agreement and hide behind your own forum software and shell companies.
The License for the Software is effective until terminated. You may terminate the License at any time by uninstalling the Software and destroying all copies of the Software.
Because, if my interpretation is wrong,
XenForo Limited reserves the right to modify the terms of this Agreement at any time.

(Or just don't engage in activities that XenForo could reasonably see are illegal)

Just my 2¢.
 
actively cooperating with law enforcement during an ongoing investigation

Did you actually read the filing because you have been blindly throwing darts and moving goalposts.

"On 24 April 2023, the first plaintiff emailed his source stating, incorrectly, that his legal team had made an application to court for a production order. Later that same evening the source sent a message as follows:"

Law enforcement wasnt even involved.
 
None of your quotes address actively cooperating with law enforcement during an ongoing investigation. While it is not explicitly stated, the language can reasonably be interpreted to allow cooperation where they believe there is a lawful basis to do so, even if that does not mean a court order in hand. Perhaps they cooperated, and in order to secure the case, they got the NPO later. I'm unsure how law works there.

Policies like these are meant to say they will not just casually hand over information to random third parties or bad actors.

There is explicit language that you might be accustomed to in agreements with, say Google, that nobody reads, but this isn't the blanket protection you made it out to be.

If you're so concerned, though, maybe you should terminate the agreement and hide behind your own forum software and shell companies.

Because, if my interpretation is wrong,


(Or just don't engage in activities that XenForo could reasonably see are illegal)

Just my 2¢.

None of my sites are even remotely illegal, immoral, or even questionable in any way. Still, I'm concerned about my own privacy. I don't think it's too much to expect that a company won't share my private information unless they're "required by law to do so" rather than just when they're asked. I'd expect XF to have consulted an attorney before they responded. I'd also have expected them to only respond to a formal request by the courts, which is what the company did.

Also, though, I don't believe there was any kind of gross negligence here. I also don't believe this was a "data breach". If this is true, it would mean there's simply a bad actor within the XF company. If it's true, I hope they're able to figure out who that bad actor is and take the necessary and appropriate actions, as they deem necessary, to ensure it doesn't happen again.
 
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