Piracy - The Battle

[John]

lol, I've been in this business a long time and have developed many personal/professional friendships with my contemporaries and we indeed "talk shop" with one another and look out for each other when we can. That is a fact and if it makes people nervous, so be it...we will continue to protect our businesses and our valued customers how we see fit. Whether we end up with a section here that is private to developers only or not doesn't really matter to me, personally, but I think this whole conversation has been blown way out of proportion and just highlights the difficulties us 3rd party providers face day in and day out (for a very small return on our efforts, I might add).

 

[Ignited]

Lol, this thread is hilarious at best.

After re-reading all "14" pages all i had to do was laugh.

At the end of the day, you claim piracy burns your pocket but as a fellow developer "holding" sales is a prime way to "burn a hole" in your pockets. The best way to combat piracy is to ... (drum roll please) -> not release. Then it doesn't come out in the general public either way you look at it.

But if you think not selling to certain others is going to honestly stop pirates you better stop being so foolish. You honestly believe it will stop a trusted buyer from leaking? Do you feel or think a legit buyer cannot be hacked and information is stolen? Do you honestly think it cannot be leaked? It will be leaked regardless of what you think, i mean look @ companies like adobe or Microsoft. If they did this whole "blacklist, not sell" i'm pretty sure neither of them would be in the Forbes list.

I'm not advocating for piracy. However i'm shocked at some of the developers and their thinking in this thread. Violating privacy of the consumer, holding no regards, simply out right saying hey if we backdoor our code we can shut it down or better yet this one "if we open a private forum we can slander other people and deter developers from stop selling on our own f*cked up logic". I can guarantee that right there just killed multiple sales on your end. Developers get sales based on a few things -> quality, respect and demand, not stupidity.

Lastly be sure to add me to that list as i use a pirated windows 7 & CS6, which more then likely a good "portion" of you use but won't man up to actually admit it /irony. Besides, i don't buy dirty code from dirty developers, i buy legit/safe code from respectable developers.

 

[Kim]

Lol, this thread is hilarious at best. <snip>

I don't have any pirated software nor music/movies etc on my PC, guess that makes me a lamer.

Your arguments are deliberately misleading and flamey, but that is no doubt your intention so I have no plans on arguing with you.

The discussion is amongst the adults here, if anyone has a genuine concern rather than just "Wahhh you might list me coz you don't like me" Then I for one am open to listening to them.

I have already recognised that in cases where the payment was chargedback due to dispute (as opposed to out and out fraud) then we will have to address potential concerns there better than just person X said person Y ripped them off.

There is no way to counter piracy, as entitled spoiled kids will always take whatever they want, hopefully some will grow up and get over that phase, but many don't.

What we really want to stop is the Fraud and the open and shut cases of piracy by known Warez sites. Not a lot to ask I wouldn't have thought.

 

[Forsaken]

I don't have any pirated software nor music/movies etc on my PC, guess that makes me a lamer.

Your arguments are deliberately misleading and flamey, but that is no doubt your intention so I have no plans on arguing with you.

The discussion is amongst the adults here, if anyone has a genuine concern rather than just "Wahhh you might list me coz you don't like me" Then I for one am open to listening to them.

I have already recognised that in cases where the payment was chargedback due to dispute (as opposed to out and out fraud) then we will have to address potential concerns there better than just person X said person Y ripped them off.

There is no way to counter piracy, as entitled spoiled kids will always take whatever they want, hopefully some will grow up and get over that phase, but many don't.

What we really want to stop is the Fraud and the open and shut cases of piracy by known Warez sites. Not a lot to ask I wouldn't have thought.

I'd just ignore him as he's just using straw man arguments.

I don't really care so much about the forum, though it would be easier to manage than a 37 page thread and would be helpful to be able to bring things to the attention of staff in a faster manner.

 

[Ignited]

I don't have any pirated software nor music/movies etc on my PC, guess that makes me a lamer.

Your arguments are deliberately misleading and flamey, but that is no doubt your intention so I have no plans on arguing with you.

The discussion is amongst the adults here, if anyone has a genuine concern rather than just "Wahhh you might list me coz you don't like me" Then I for one am open to listening to them.

I have already recognised that in cases where the payment was chargedback due to dispute (as opposed to out and out fraud) then we will have to address potential concerns there better than just person X said person Y ripped them off.

There is no way to counter piracy, as entitled spoiled kids will always take whatever they want, hopefully some will grow up and get over that phase, but many don't.

What we really want to stop is the Fraud and the open and shut cases of piracy by known Warez sites. Not a lot to ask I wouldn't have thought.

That's not what bothers me, what bothers me is some of the illogical thinking occurring in this thread.

Most in this thread feel it's ok to violates someone's privacy, spy, or even monitor there servers regardless of the fact of a person being or not being a pirate. So i'll tell you what you tell me exactly what makes that morally acceptable on any level?

I legally own a variety of vbulletin products, IPS products and now i happily own xenforo. Though i refuse to invest in any developer that wishes to spy on my server via their software i purchased. I moved from IPS to vbulletin due to bad business ethics by IPS then found out literally a hand full of vB developers like to deploy dirty code to make a quick buck and this is why i came here in hope and aspect things would be entirely different.

But reading this thread and seeing some things being said i am starting to see that it may not any different. My post is not flamey in any aspect as i am actually a developer myself and my points are quite valid. I however develop application software, which at the end of the day contains more lines then well 90% of the plugins being sold here. You don't see me crying about piracy and i do quite well with sales.

I am also a grown ass man, so don't imply foolishly that i am a child.

On another note, i am surprised by the amount of people you can directly add to your account on xf and i am not entirely sure why this was done or who was thinking it was wise to begin with.

 

[Digital Doctor]

I am also a grown ass man

Hey a fellow ass man.

Cool.

Regardless of anti-piracy measures there are lots of other ways to encourage wider adoption of addons. A major problem with addons are people are scared to purchase them because they fear the addons won't be updated as time goes on. There are lots of people who would pay for addons if there were better guarantees.

 

[cclaerhout]

Most in this thread feel it's ok to violates someone's privacy, spy, or even monitor there servers regardless of the fact of a person being or not being a pirate.

Source?

 

[Kim]

I'd just ignore him as he's just using straw man arguments.

I don't really care so much about the forum, though it would be easier to manage than a 37 page thread and would be helpful to be able to bring things to the attention of staff in a faster manner.

A private forum would be easier to manage than a thread or a whole bunch of threads.

The Resource forum has a huge additional benefits other than just anti-piracy, to me that is actually a fairly minor side benefit, you know how I feel about piracy, it's very annoying, but ultimately you can't fight it. You can fight fraud however, and should wherever possible.

The biggest benefit the resource forum has is to bring together people who are value adding to the product, and as such have often got great ideas on future direction, or feedback about issues, peer to peer help etc etc.

I would be a great thing to see

 

[Kim]

I am also a grown ass man, so don't imply foolishly that i am a child.

Starting your contribution to a discussion with "Lol, this thread is hilarious at best. After re-reading all "14" pages all i had to do was laugh" probably doesn't add to your credibility very much, it's hardly surprising you might not be taken seriously when right off the cuff you are showing you have nothing but contempt for the discussion and those in it.


As I have said a few times in this thread now, there are about 6 different discussions going on. I for one do not condone, nor would I be involved with any kind of "call back" arrangement.

We were specifically discussing the concept of a private resource provider forum, and the potential listing of those who have committed fraud, or proven acts of piracy.

If you wish to address your concerns about Call back or other intrusive technologies, I suggest you quote the posts involved.

 

[EQnoble]

One of them.

excuse me?

 

[cclaerhout]

One of them.

Mmm that's not what can be called a source for what I'm asking. May be Kim used a better formulation asking to "quote the posts involved".

excuse me?

All is your fault !

 

[EQnoble]

lol, I've been in this business a long time and have developed many personal/professional friendships with my contemporaries and we indeed "talk shop" with one another and look out for each other when we can. That is a fact and if it makes people nervous, so be it...we will continue to protect our businesses and our valued customers how we see fit. Whether we end up with a section here that is private to developers only or not doesn't really matter to me, personally, but I think this whole conversation has been blown way out of proportion and just highlights the difficulties us 3rd party providers face day in and day out (for a very small return on our efforts, I might add).

(I am responding to your post John but this in no way applies to you as my contact with you has been limited and I really don't know you at all. Your post just made me have to respond and say what I have to say. )

Which is all fine and dandy...but there is enough cliquey crap going on without sanctified forums for it at xf. I have already had sneaky dirtbag people make pretend to be cool with me just to try and pump me for info...I don't want to see justification for that here in the way of a forum.

If these crews of selective people want to work together somewhere else...go right ahead...I just have a big problem with that happening here. I have been helping here for years and up until recently never accepted even a donation...How come I am not informed of who is a scammer or alerted about these convos? Many developers know how to get a hold of me. I guess I don't qualify as a developer. Is it because the group of people who are in these circles are already a closed selective group...I don't feel like having that rubbed in my face every time I log in here. Nor do I feel like getting an effed up response from someone out of nowhere when it is the result of a backroom convo.

I also wonder why I was never included in these conversations...for that matter why half of the developers dont even respond to convos from me, and when they do, it feels like I could have gotten a better reply if I had read the cue card myself. I guess I must have been excluded a long time ago...whatever...this thread makes me not want to use this software anymore. Which I suppose none of the 3rd part devs care about because as person who bought xf stuff with no intention of running a forum I wont make them any money.

Do whatever the hell you people want. Alienation is nothing anyways right?

 

[DRE]

https://twitter.com/ForumScriptz/status/311647249107144705

 

[Kim]

Please don't feed the trolls DRE

Who cares what he thinks or tweets

Link to some idiot's twitter account

 

[DRE]

Please don't feed the trolls DRE

Who cares what he thinks or tweets

His sites down like mine.

 

[cclaerhout]

And please delete this link... No need to promote them in public.

 

[Kim]

Do whatever the hell you people want. Alienation is nothing anyways right?

I for one am sorry you feel alienated Ant, I don't have direct knowledge of what you are saying has happened to you, and i hope I am not in the group, nor have ever excluded you - But I do know that there is nothing at all wrong with valuing those that contribute resources.

This is of course why it will never happen, there will be too much argument and dissention, or hurt feelings or whatever.

Shame as it really is a great idea, and works for IPB.

 

[tyteen4a03]

excuse me?

I may have read your post incorrectly. My apologies. (I was thinking that you're trying to embed code that embeds HTML back to your site, and the word 'API code' ticked me off and made me do something without thinking.)

View attachment 41766
Hey a fellow ass man.

Cool.

Regardless of anti-piracy measures there are lots of other ways to encourage wider adoption of addons. A major problem with addons are people are scared to purchase them because they fear the addons won't be updated as time goes on. There are lots of people who would pay for addons if there were better guarantees.

Better incentives. This is what a few of us have been saying.

And please delete this link... No need to promote them in public.

AFAIK they don't have a public forum running.

 

[Kim]

View attachment 41766
Hey a fellow ass man.

Cool.

Regardless of anti-piracy measures there are lots of other ways to encourage wider adoption of addons. A major problem with addons are people are scared to purchase them because they fear the addons won't be updated as time goes on. There are lots of people who would pay for addons if there were better guarantees.

You need to get yourself a pair of AssMan Panties ( I know the designer of these, and his Mom!)

 

[Digital Doctor]

You need to get yourself a pair of AssMan Panties

Truer words were never spoken.
Problem is ... my wife is pregnant and I get her a pair of these ... all she will do is talk about how fat she is in them.