Once, there was a time long ago... And there was a a new version planned for vBulletin that included a full refactoring to an MVC system. It was a big job, a really big job estimated to take maybe a couple years (IIRC). Then came IB. And suddenly vB 4.0 was no longer a full refactoring, the changeover was going to be "phased in" which is a horribly painful way to do it, likely to mean a lot of painful upgrades and broken mods. Here's the irony. By doing such an atrocious job, and setting the *perfect* stage for XF, IB managed to put Mike and Kier in a position to simply start from scratch and build a completely new system from scratch. And Kier just more or less confirmed that XF is indeed fully MFC (http://xenforo.com/community/thread...anged.686/#post-8155). So. We went with Joomla! as our site home/CMS, NOT for the CMS itself but because of the fully MVC system upon which that CMS was built upon, as it's a GREAT environment to develop extensions/systems for. IB, by the way they have, *ahem*, screwed the pooch... Appear to have actually speeded up the development timetable for the system (the forum) that is the heart and soul of our site. And so... IB, I raise a glass (chardonnay, not excellent, but passable) to you. Thank you for sucking so VERY badly that you made my life, and our site's financial future brighter! To IB! Long may they reign as the cr@piest of suits! Note: Please excuse my French, I'm American. And have actually been drinking the toast described above !