Legal responsibilities of a message board (in the US mostly)
- Thread starter kingston
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jadmperry
Well-known member
Most questions like this are too broad to be answered in full. The advantage of real world scenarios are that they focus the issues. It is possible to give general advice on this type of question, but it is just that- general advice. There will likely be exceptions or circumstances that would change the advice.
I know that is not very helpful. I just mean to point out the built in limitation to these type of questions.
I know that is not very helpful. I just mean to point out the built in limitation to these type of questions.
User
Well-known member
You have no way to know till the one who owns the info points out to you that you aren't supposed to know. Once it's pointed out to you then you know and can probably get into trouble if you do not remove it.
From the way you reply it seems that you are not principally opposed to people posting info that's not theirs as long as it doesn't get you in trouble. If that's true then it's really difficult to give you useful advice since you deliberately want to walk the line between legit and illegal. If that is really the case then you definitely want to hire a legal professional to answer how close you can get before you get into trouble.
If I am reading the above into your replies and you don't actually want that content then I'd just post something along the lines of:
And be done with it. Those terms were taken from Hardforum.com where they work well.
Then when someone complains about the disclosure of privileged info you just take it down and be done with it.
It does sound like the availability of that info is what drives your traffic though, so maybe you just want to incorporate abroad and host somewhere where U.S. law has no effect.
Do tell, what's the URL to your site?
Carlos
Well-known member
When I said "frowned" upon, I meant they take drastic measures to make sure that either the private information doesn't go outside of the company walls or private information isn't leaked out. That includes firing the leaker, or filing a lawsuit against the whistle blower. Recently, MW3 was leaked and Activision said that they vow to find the leaker. That won't end well.
Never mind that MW3 is now one of the most talked game on the market, regardless of the leak. That's not the point. The point is, Activision planned to reveal the game the week after the leak happened. Instead, someone thought it was a great idea to leak it out as a publicity stunt.
That part is complicated, you would be collateral damage if you do post it and they point out to you you're not supposed to post it in the first place. As much as it sounds like a black and white situation, there are grey areas.
There is this one: "Common sense."
And that's fine!
And kingston. When they say take it down, they mean business. No sarcasm, no joke. Either you do it, or face a lawsuit. If you get a cease or detest letter, you will know its far more serious than when they asked you to take it down.
I definitely agree here. Although, its not a good idea to say "I don't care this just as long as this..and this." Companies will look at that and not do busines with you in the future.
That is shady, and isn't really a good idea. Your Whois is still in the records, so whoever is your domain registrar will help the company in question. Private or not private. I think what you're describing is what Wikileaks did.
You could have seen his sig, but since you didn't:
www.fierceboard.com
Deebs
Well-known member
When I said "frowned" upon, I meant they take drastic measures to make sure that either the private information doesn't go outside of the company walls or private information isn't leaked out. That includes firing the leaker, or filing a lawsuit against the whistle blower. Recently, MW3 was leaked and Activision said that they vow to find the leaker. That won't end well.
That part is complicated, you would be collateral damage if you do post it and they point out to you you're not supposed to post it in the first place. As much as it sounds like a black and white situation, there are grey areas.
There is this one: "Common sense."
And that's fine!
I believe that if someone posted something that was breaking a law (of where the content was hosted) then yes you could be liable if it was shown that you didn't act in a reasonable period of time.
User
Well-known member
Ah thanks, I turned the sigs off since they annoy me to no end as XF has no sig control and sigs are all over the place in terms of what and how much is in them.
jadmperry
Well-known member
The issues are more complicated than many posters suggest. I would suggest neither clear liability nor defenses exist for all situations.
You need to really look at what body of law and what jurisdiction (state or federal) you are talking about. There are potential copyright, libel/defamation, privacy, contract, and First Amendment issues in your general question. How the liability would resolve depends so much on the facts that a simple answer is not likely to be of much help.
You need to really look at what body of law and what jurisdiction (state or federal) you are talking about. There are potential copyright, libel/defamation, privacy, contract, and First Amendment issues in your general question. How the liability would resolve depends so much on the facts that a simple answer is not likely to be of much help.
kingston
Well-known member
Let me clarify a bit. First, none of the info would be illegal. Illegal information on a board or spread another way probably doesn't matter about the medium.
Example of what has happened before (and background to set this up): In allstar cheerleader they are about 5,000 individual gyms run across the US. These gyms are the owners full time job (there are about 200,000 allstar cheerleaders in the US, plus 400,000 high school cheerleaders... its decently big). Because of the nature of what we do there is 'drama' between customers, owners, athletes and the like. One situation that stands out is a user on my forum posted about a gym and the circumstances that led up to the firing of an employee (of which the user was involved in the events that led to the firing). The gym in question reacted poorly and the way it was handled made them look very poor. The user posted these events who were known by everyone at the gym... but the user wanted everyone in the cheer world to know. The gym owner sent an email threatening to sue if I did not take down the info.
Many similar circumstances such as that I am curious as to what I can or cannot be sued for, and what I should take down. (that gym has since gone out of business because of their terrible business practices).
If something along the lines of illegal activities (such as adults approaching kids) we have informed the governing body of our sport immediately and usually lock the threads.
Does that help explain?
Example of what has happened before (and background to set this up): In allstar cheerleader they are about 5,000 individual gyms run across the US. These gyms are the owners full time job (there are about 200,000 allstar cheerleaders in the US, plus 400,000 high school cheerleaders... its decently big). Because of the nature of what we do there is 'drama' between customers, owners, athletes and the like. One situation that stands out is a user on my forum posted about a gym and the circumstances that led up to the firing of an employee (of which the user was involved in the events that led to the firing). The gym in question reacted poorly and the way it was handled made them look very poor. The user posted these events who were known by everyone at the gym... but the user wanted everyone in the cheer world to know. The gym owner sent an email threatening to sue if I did not take down the info.
Many similar circumstances such as that I am curious as to what I can or cannot be sued for, and what I should take down. (that gym has since gone out of business because of their terrible business practices).
If something along the lines of illegal activities (such as adults approaching kids) we have informed the governing body of our sport immediately and usually lock the threads.
Does that help explain?
jadmperry
Well-known member
A little,but not much...like I said, there are a great many potential issues and you have to look at what area of law we are talking about and who is doing the posting, who would be complaining/challenging the posts...Defamation, tortious disclosure of private facts, labor law, First Amendment law may all be implicated in the example you gave. There are many possible claims and defenses. There are so many issues and it would take way too long to analyze them here.
Some interesting issues, though and you can read more in these links:
http://volokh.com/2011/06/07/new-je...Feed:+volokh/mainfeed+(The+Volokh+Conspiracy)
http://volokh.com/2011/06/07/when-f...Feed:+volokh/mainfeed+(The+Volokh+Conspiracy)
Take a look at this one for the labor law implications....in this case a company fired workers for their postings on facebook about their job. The National Labor Review Board said that the firings interfered with workers rights to organize and discuss their working conditions. This does not impact the liability of facebook nor would it implicate a site owner, but I think it is interesting to see how labor and employment law could be pulled into the analysis of the scenario you cited. If the poster was posting about working conditions at their job, it might implicate some similar concerns. http://www.calpublicagencylaborempl...-involving-firing-over-facebook-post-settles/
Some interesting issues, though and you can read more in these links:
http://volokh.com/2011/06/07/new-je...Feed:+volokh/mainfeed+(The+Volokh+Conspiracy)
http://volokh.com/2011/06/07/when-f...Feed:+volokh/mainfeed+(The+Volokh+Conspiracy)
Take a look at this one for the labor law implications....in this case a company fired workers for their postings on facebook about their job. The National Labor Review Board said that the firings interfered with workers rights to organize and discuss their working conditions. This does not impact the liability of facebook nor would it implicate a site owner, but I think it is interesting to see how labor and employment law could be pulled into the analysis of the scenario you cited. If the poster was posting about working conditions at their job, it might implicate some similar concerns. http://www.calpublicagencylaborempl...-involving-firing-over-facebook-post-settles/
User
Well-known member
What I would do in this situation if this were my forum is to publish the threatening email as well.
Carlos
Well-known member
I'll explain this so you understand. It does not matter if it isn't deemed as "illegal." It matters that you, or in this case, your "establishment" caused thousands of dollars in losses. Which your next paragraph directly says you [ahem, your user] in fact, did.
I would be pissed off, hell, even livid right now if I was the owner. I would even go as far as suing you for the damages. When the user posted that info and the owner threatened you, I would have just taken down the article. Because what that situation means is that your user caused that gym to go out of business, it does not matter your opinion, such as "I don't care, the business sucks, it had bad practices." That doesn't matter, when you directly impacted an establishment's downfall, that establishment can sue you for EVERYTHING they lost.
You are lucky that this guy didn't go as far as pushing this situation on your "establishment."
All the guy needs is proof on your site, and bam. Bam. Your site, your "establishment." Out of the door. Pronto.
kingston
Well-known member
I think that is probably what I would do at this point. The board I run itself makes VERY little money and is an LLC. To me if someone wanted to sue the board the best defense I have is the unpopularity of being the one who actually took down the board.
kingston
Well-known member
If they lost everything and the business I had makes little money they wont have much to sue with. Threatening to sue a company with no money doesn't really get you that far. Unless you want to spend all that you have to take that company down.
Carlos
Well-known member
Wow. Okay, I'm not going to bother arguing with you because you really, really don't get it. I wish I was the owner's position because he can actually take you out of business, regardless of how much you made.
Also, just remember, the state has the right to revoke your LLC. So, in the case of lawsuits like this, your business, if it is legit - dead, if the owner successfully wins the suit.
Its like xenForo. XenForo is currently being sued while the company is a start-up venture, they didn't make any money when they were sued. They were sued during pre-sale phase.
User
Well-known member
Let's just be sure to point out that what caused the gym to go out of business, if indeed it would, is the management of the gym. If what's posted is true, and it's not privileged information, then that's no different than writing a letter to the editor with the same content. If what happened is public knowledge among the gym membership then posting the same true facts online will not get anyone into trouble. That should really be obvious. If what's posted is not true then it's a different matter altogether.
grant sarver
Well-known member
Carlos, we're all just friends here, discussing many things, as friends do. Don't preface your argument with belittling things like "I'm not going to bother arguing with you". If you're not going to bother, then don't bother. Otherwise, relax and take things down a few rungs.
kingston
Well-known member
I feel like we are moving past the point of discussion and into who has the bigger... forum.
The truth is anyone can sue you at any moment for anything. If they have enough money and motivation they can claim whatever they want. I would like to figure out what ways I can ensure I dont put myself in a situation where suing a board will not actually bear any fruit.
Carlos, thank you for your contribution to this discussion, but I prefer you not to answer anymore as I don't agree with you or think you are contributing in a healthy way to this dicussion. As the OP of this post, thank you for taking that into consideration.
The truth is anyone can sue you at any moment for anything. If they have enough money and motivation they can claim whatever they want. I would like to figure out what ways I can ensure I dont put myself in a situation where suing a board will not actually bear any fruit.
Carlos, thank you for your contribution to this discussion, but I prefer you not to answer anymore as I don't agree with you or think you are contributing in a healthy way to this dicussion. As the OP of this post, thank you for taking that into consideration.
Carlos
Well-known member
If you don't think I am contributing enough to this discussion...I'm sorry, but that's partly your fault, too. I'll explain:kingston said:
It was not my intention to be the one who has the "bigger" forum. Every time I provide you with feedback, you seem to want to clash back. I say one thing, and then you try to fight it by saying "I don't care, and I don't think this will do this and this."
This guy here, accuses me of trying to belittle...
That is far from the truth. It seems like you really are frustrated right now because you feel more than just threatened, and you want to have reasons why you should keep that article that the user posted on your forum. It seems like you're trying to defend yourself in a way, but that's not what you should and want to be doing from a business standpoint.grant sarver said:
You look worse that way. Not just to your users [and some users will react in a way that goes against your ideals], but to the greater public. Why? Because institutions for cheerleaders will look at your site and go like "hm. this site destroyed a business, why should I do business with this site or company if that's the case?"
What you don't understand is high schools, colleges care about their own reputation more than companies do. Their names, mascot(s) has to represent their school's overall reputation and brand all at the same time, so if someone trashes the insitution's name. BOOM!
You see. I see your site being more than a personal website, I see it more than just a community, I see it differently from most consumer forums; car forums, video game forums, computer forums... You have touched a very different kind of communty, you have carved a niche. And you tapped into that niche far more than you realize. If your site was a real business, you'd have 400,000 customers. Because your users want to connect on a more personal level than just discussions. That much is evident, but they can't be doing things on your behalf the way that user did.
I see the passion from you, but your judgements are off. I was trying to slap your hand here. Because, you could be in more financial trouble than what you realize. I don't think you understand the consequences here. I am trying to push you here, not in the way that seems smothering, but in a way that you understand something. If I didn't give a crap about you or your site I wouldn't be trying to help you out here.
The best answer anyone could give you is this: When situations such as the one you described, you must act on it. Otherwise you lose more than you realize.kingston said:
dieketzer
Well-known member
i did that very thing the other day
http://bit.ly/kNpDGn
here is a copy of the image i posted (so you dont need to register to see it)
http://bit.ly/iHrr0V
User
Well-known member
Nice, spend a good half hour reading your forum, still don't know what it's actually about but you seem to have less than 300 members yet some 90k posts, which is pretty remarkable. What is gotVirtual actually about? OP: Sorry for slight OT.