Is XenForo now monitoring all XF forums for hosted content?

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Arnox

Arnox

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I recently received a report that the site KiwiFarms had its XF license officially revoked. Now, I get it. KiwiFarms has always been incredibly disreputable, but the XF team now revoking licenses based on (at least what I'm hearing) hosted content sets a very dangerous precedent both for XF and for customers. It already says clearly in the License Agreement that XF is not responsible or liable for anything that customers use the software for. By revoking licenses due to hosted content, this could be taken as a statement that XF is now holding itself liable for ALL content that is hosted on ALL customers' sites.

This decision could also potentially harm customers as well because now, anyone can message XF saying for whatever reason that a site is offensive or unacceptable and will demand license revocation or they will threaten to sue the company. Will XF judge and oversee all these complaints? Will all people who register complaints against a site be grounds for license revocation?

I humbly ask that the XF team please rethink this decision, maybe not necessarily for KF, but for all forums in the future that could come into the crosshairs next. XF has always been the leading standard for forum and even general site software. It hurts greatly to see this beginning to happen. Thank you.
 
I guess XF is really looking into the reports and do their reasearch. Because once they revoke a license, you can't also become a new customer I guess.. So they will lose customers...
 
Gh0stAdventures said:
I guess XF is really looking into the reports and do their reasearch. Because once they revoke a license, you can't also become a new customer I guess.. So they will lose customers...
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Not really, I do have a revoke license due to a stupid mistake (I was busy so I took my forum down, then put the link in the license to a null site in Vietnam). Even though I don't have any relation with that site. XF catch the license as spread null software so my license was revoke, I did try to explain but useless. I end up in purchase a new license via same account.
 
phucvandinh said:
Not really, I do have a revoke license due to a stupid mistake (I was busy so I took my forum down, then put the link in the license to a null site in Vietnam). Even though I don't have any relation with that site. XF catch the license as spread null software so my license was revoke, I did try to explain but useless. I end up in purchase a new license via same account.
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Okay then you are lucky, for me it also sounds weird that you change the license to a nulled forum xD
 
Gh0stAdventures said:
Okay then you are lucky, for me it also sounds weird that you change the license to a nulled forum xD
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It's a stupid mistake. I really don't know why I change that,, but the name of the license still my old forum. And I don't realize the license was revoke for a long time as I was busy. Once I got free I can't download XF so I contact support and got those response. I did mention that my license have nothing to do with nulled site. As the nulled site still have new XF release even though my license was blocked. But I want to start my forum again so I re-purchase. From my experience , a revoke license doesn't mean that I can't become XF customer again.
 
phucvandinh said:
It's a stupid mistake. I really don't know why I change that,, but the name of the license still my old forum. And I don't realize the license was revoke for a long time as I was busy. Once I got free I can't download XF so I contact support and got those response. I did mention that my license have nothing to do with nulled site. As the nulled site still have new XF release even though my license was blocked. But I want to start my forum again so I re-purchase.
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I have the feeling you try to explain to me, what happend with your license. But I'm not owning Xenforo haha.

Still after all your explaining, you really need to be very lucky. Because if I was XF, I shouldn't let you re-purchase a license. Sorry but there is never no need to enter a nulled website, to maintain your license when the website is down.

But never mind, don't want to start a discussion here that is not mine.
 
Arnox said:
I humbly ask that the XF team please rethink this decision, maybe not necessarily for KF, but for all forums in the future that could come into the crosshairs next. XF has always been the leading standard for forum and even general site software. It hurts greatly to see this beginning to happen. Thank you.
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xenforo.com

License agreement

Terms and conditions for self-hosted XenForo
xenforo.com xenforo.com

The license agreement is agreed to by all sites before they download XenForo.
 
Slavik said:
xenforo.com

License agreement

Terms and conditions for self-hosted XenForo
xenforo.com xenforo.com

The license agreement is agreed to by all sites before they download XenForo.
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The agreement can be changed and has been changed before in the past. And besides. Just because the XF team can do something doesn't necessarily mean they should. XF reserves the right to enforce the agreement as they see fit.
 
Arnox said:
The agreement can be changed and has been changed before in the past. And besides. Just because the XF team can do something doesn't necessarily mean they should. XF reserves the right to enforce the agreement as they see fit.
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For the avoidance of doubt, it is logged which version of the license agreement is last agreed to.
 
Arnox said:
The agreement can be changed and has been changed before in the past. And besides. Just because the XF team can do something doesn't necessarily mean they should. XF reserves the right to enforce the agreement as they see fit.
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So they basically have the same license agreement that practically every platform and every product in existence has?

When I still did design services there were a few licenses I revoked because I didn't want mine or Kim's brand associated with that community (one was a porn community with snuff porn for example), and there were a few people I outright told I would not work with them because of their community focus (one was a neo nazi forum, and had a lot of offense rhetoric towards minorities especially Asians).
 
Forsaken said:
So they basically have the same license agreement that practically every platform and every product in existence has?

When I still did design services there were a few licenses I revoked because I didn't want mine or Kim's brand associated with that community (one was a porn community with snuff porn for example), and there were a few people I outright told I would not work with them because of their community focus (one was a neo nazi forum, and had a lot of offense rhetoric towards minorities especially Asians).
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If they were doing illegal things, why didn't you just report them to the police?
 
nicodak said:
Why want to defend them here if they do illegal things?
And which police should xenforo notify for a forum hosted in Pakistan?
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Assuming you're talking about KF, I'm not defending KF's honor here. Instead, I'm asking humbly for XF to not police (heh) hosted content on XF sites. While they certainly have the right to do so, it opens up a ton of complications and headaches for everyone involved. As for me personally, I host a website dedicated to the spirit of free speech, and XF policing content like this could very easily mean the revocation of my license just because someone on the forum let loose a racial slur that offended someone. Or maybe someone doctors photos that make me out to be someone I'm not. There's so many ways this policy could be abused by malicious actors. If this is really what's going to be happening going forward then I don't feel comfortable staying with XF any further. For years, I have vouched for them, did free advertising for them, and have been a cheerleader for them pretty much because I approved of their software completely. I even liked having the XF logo at the bottom of the site because it indicated that the site was running on the best of the best. I don't want that to change. XF, please, for the love of everything, don't make me eat my words.

As to the authorities, well, sometimes there's only so much you can do. Though keep in mind, assuming some members really are participating in actually illegal and harmful activity, just because the site's hosted in Pakistan doesn't mean the members are in Pakistan.
 
Arnox said:
If they were doing illegal things, why didn't you just report them to the police?
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Nothing I stated is inherently illegal; it is just not socially acceptable, and looks bad when you're associated with it.

XF has made their stance clear on this point in the past, and their stance is much more lenient than many other platform or software. Not sure what more you want from them 🤷‍♂️.
 
Forsaken said:
Nothing I stated is inherently illegal; it is just not socially acceptable, and looks bad when you're associated with it.

XF has made their stance clear on this point in the past, and their stance is much more lenient than many other platform or software. Not sure what more you want from them 🤷‍♂️.
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Before I say anything else, I need to know more about the service you offered. Were you writing general software that was licensed out or was it specifically commissioned and custom-built?
 
Arnox said:
Before I say anything else, I need to know more about the service you offered. Were you writing general software that was licensed out or was it specifically commissioned and custom-built?
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Both? But it doesn't matter? Firing customers and refunding as you do not wish to do business with them, or rejecting custom services is up to me and no one else. If I feel that I have no interest in working with someone because of their sites content, I will not work with them.
 
Forsaken said:
Both? But it doesn't matter? Firing customers and refunding as you do not wish to do business with them, or rejecting custom services is up to me and no one else. If I feel that I have no interest in working with someone because of their sites content, I will not work with them.
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I ask because if it's commissioned work, that makes sense. You're offering a product specifically built for them, so it would be an endorsement in a way, but if you're offering, say, a program you already wrote for mass-market sale i.e. XenForo, then it's not a customized product in any way. Therefore, whoever you sell to is not an endorsement of their words or activities. Consider McDonalds. I'm sure they've sold food to some of the worst people imaginable. But does that mean that McDonalds endorses those awful activities? Should McDonalds require a background check before they sell food to anyone?

Putting that aside, let's say for the sake of argument that you were selling a program purely and entirely meant for mass-market sale, but you still decide who can buy it or not. Well, now you're saying you don't really believe in the spirit of free speech at all. And if that actually is your position then there isn't really anything else to discuss, but if you do, then prohibiting sale to undesirables would be hypocritical, don't you think?
 
Arnox said:
Consider McDonalds. I'm sure they've sold food to some of the worst people imaginable.
But does that mean that McDonalds endorses those awful activities?
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No. But it does show that McDonalds doesn't care that much who consumes their product (and advertises their brand by doing that).
Other brands like Hermès do that and won't let just everyone buy a Birkin Bag for example.

Arnox said:
Well, now you're saying you don't really believe in the spirit of free speech at all.
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Doesn't have anything to do with free speech, it's their (XenForo Ltd.) product and they can decide who may or may not use it.
Those that XenForo does not accept as (continued) customers are free to choose another forum software, there are plenty alternatives.
 
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