Current state of XF and the participation of the XF Team

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The Dark Wizard

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Your community's success is not dependent on what software you use. You can make a very successful community on free and open source (examples: discourse, mybb). If you are upset with the communication levels of xenForo, then don't renew. Vote with your wallets.
 
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rdn

Well-known member
Just a "Maybe" thought.

XenForo was acquired by VerticalScope, or IPS.
Or... Maybe the focus now is only on Cloud Hosted forums' support and migration.

:unsure:
Causing the delay of 2.3.x and increasing unresolved bug reports.
 

FTL

Well-known member
Your community's success is not dependent on what software you use. You can make a very successful community on free and open source (examples: discourse, mybb). If you are upset with the communication levels of xenForo, then don't renew. Vote with your wallets.
Good points. However, the irony of the bold bit, is that if the problem is being caused by cash flow, then this will only make the problem worse and accelerate the downward trend. This is why it's so critical that XF communicate with its customers as it may allow their customers to help them and everybody wins. It can change the outlook completely.

Also, aren't XF a little embarrased at having members start threads like this? I would be if I was running the company and would want to do something about it.
 

sbj

Well-known member
Also, aren't XF a little embarrased at having members start threads like this? I would be if I was running the company and would want to do something about it.
Actually, to be fair, this is pretty awesome. Not all companies are like this and censor you like hell. Credit where credit is due. XF always let you do your own thing as long as it is kept civil. Of course such threads may look negative but on the other hand it is a testimony for how the customers are treated by not censoring them. From that angle I see no problems (hearing horror stories from IPS makes you feel appreciated). But other areas are problematic imo.
 

The Dark Wizard

Well-known member
Good points. However, the irony of the bold bit, is that if the problem is being caused by cash flow, then this will only make the problem worse and accelerate the downward trend. This is why it's so critical that XF communicate with its customers. It can change the outlook completely.

Also, aren't XF a little embarrased at having members start threads like this? I would be if I was running the company and would want to do something about it.
If the issue is cashflow and the company is so gravely doomed, then nothing we can do, short of many more people hoping on Cloud, will fix it.

These threads border on harassment, to be honest. Don't get me wrong, I run a large site, compared to most people in this thread and have since the days xenForo came out, but I don't waste my time posting about my displeasure here. Has anyone considered making a ticket and asking how things are, or requesting support for an actual issue?

When you don't get support, that is included with your license, then you should be concerned.

@Kier posted in this thread that HYS would come in the coming weeks, we are still within that time frame. If anyone wants to be concerned, be concerned after December/January, maybe if we haven't started getting HYS threads.

I renew as I need when an update comes out and not before.
 

Russ

Well-known member
@sbj excellent post. Articulates and clarifies really well what I've been noticing and posting about and got attacked for by apologists the other day, alas.

I think something has happened at the company and all is not well, unfortunately. This total lack of communication is terrible and doesn't bode well for the medium and long term. It's certainly not the way to treat your paying customers. This is commercial software after all, not free.

It wouldn't surprise me if XF revenue has tanked, perhaps, as quietness can be one of the signs until big news breaks our, like a company going into administration, perhaps. Pure speculation by me, but most things are driven by money, so not totally unreasonable.

If the worst should happen and I can no longer use XF for whatever reason, then I have an Invision license that I can renew (expensive and no post numbers, alas) or maybe - shock - go to vBulletin if I really had to and finally get that half decent article system I've been talking about here. I get the impression that the latest version is probably not as terrible as people think it is. I don't have a vB license btw.

But for now, my site works fine, so I sit tight and on tenterhooks for an update - any update - like everybody else.

Also, aren't XF a little embarrased at having members start threads like this? I would be if I was running the company and would want to do something about it.

You must be new here :). As someone who has been on XF since the beginning, this communication style isn't anything new. These threads ALWAYS pop up, they have for the past 10 years.


(some of these were from the litigation times, but they still pop up almost every release cycle)

A few things I know:
1.) The second 2.3 HYS's come, this thread becomes irrelevant as with the others for the most part (not saying there isn't valid feedback here, but people won't care as much).
2.) Someone will post "where's 2.4" the day 2.3 is released as a joke but eventually turns semi-serious.
3.) XF has a rock solid platform to build a community on CURRENTLY.

Could they be more vocal in the community? Sure. Am I looking forward to the first HYS? Absolutely.
 

FTL

Well-known member
Actually, to be fair, this is pretty awesome. Not all companies are like this and censor you like hell. Credit where credit is due. XF always let you do your own thing as long as it is kept civil. Of course such threads may look negative but on the other hand it is a testimony for how the customers are treated by not censoring them. From that angle I see no problems (hearing horror stories from IPS makes you feel appreciated). But other areas are problematic imo.
They mostly don't censor, which is a credit in that respect. I still think it's kinda embarrassing to have the customers feel they need to start threads like this.


If the issue is cashflow and the company is so gravely doomed, then nothing we can do, short of many more people hoping on Cloud, will fix it.

These threads border on harassment, to be honest. Don't get me wrong, I run a large site, compared to most people in this thread and have since the days xenForo came out, but I don't waste my time posting about my displeasure here. Has anyone considered making a ticket and asking how things are, or requesting support for an actual issue?

When you don't get support, that is included with your license, then you should be concerned.

@Kier posted in this thread that HYS would come in the coming weeks, we are still within that time frame. If anyone wants to be concerned, be concerned after December/January, maybe if we haven't started getting HYS threads.

I renew as I need when an update comes out and not before.

Well, a company with cashflow problems isn't necessarily doomed thankfully, but it doesn't bode well, no.

Harassment? Interesting take, glad I didn't start it, so you're not looking at me, lol.

Kier did say this on 11th July though. It's now considerably longer than "a few weeks", so no wonder the natives are becoming restless.

I'll second renewing as needed, especially when development is so slow.
 

sbj

Well-known member
@Russ

To be fair (to myself), this thread is not about 2.3 in itself. It is a side argument made by myself. Largely my point was to display how the communication/support of the XF team has decreased drastically. In combination with not holding promises (XF 2.0 will make development faster + 2 new devs), it looks like nothing is done anymore. So in both directions (development and communication) there are problems. Not just 2.3. Especially I also talked about the bug reports which are growing bigger and bigger (and I can't remember them being this much before).

So brushing my thread off as "where is 2.3" is unfair to myself.
 

The Dark Wizard

Well-known member
You must be new here :). As someone who has been on XF since the beginning, this communication style isn't anything new. These threads ALWAYS pop up, they have for the past 10 years.


(some of these were from the litigation times, but they still pop up almost every release cycle)

A few things I know:
1.) The second 2.3 HYS's come, this thread becomes irrelevant as with the others for the most part (not saying there isn't valid feedback here, but people won't care as much).
2.) Someone will post "where's 2.4" the day 2.3 is released as a joke but eventually turns semi-serious.
3.) XF has a rock solid platform to build a community on CURRENTLY.

Could they be more vocal in the community? Sure. Am I looking forward to the first HYS? Absolutely.

As long as the xenForo platform works, I get support as needed (it's been a few years since I've had to make a ticket) and such, I'm more interested in proper support from add-ons and style makers.

God knows I poke @Xon religiously and I currently only use @Russ' themes for our site which we like to sometimes heavily edit, and he still supports and answers my questions.

Work on your sites, stop renewing if it's not providing you any value and work on your communities, content and users in a way that is fun and meaningful and the rest will work out.

We've been really fortunate to make some of the acquaintances and friends we've made, since xenForo came out, and if people stop focusing on the software, which works fine and gets a major release or two every year, you'll find that everything is actually fine and that your community from 10 users to 1 million, is actually fine.

When we started, we had a core group of like 8-12 people who were never left our site and that's how we got started, most of them are still here, and we have over 10 million posts and over 18 million pms, and thousands of active users.
 

The Dark Wizard

Well-known member
Harassment? Interesting take, glad I didn't start it, so you're not looking at me, lol.

Maybe it's a strong word, but that's how these always break down, they aren't helpful. There have definitely been worse issues on this community over the years over the lack of communication.

Kier did say this on 11th July though. It's now considerably longer than "a few weeks", so no wonder the natives are becoming restless.

In software development, a few weeks can be in blocks of four, at-least that's how some businesses do it. When he said a few weeks, I accepted anywhere from August to December as valid points in my head since it was posted in almost mid-July. Maybe saying a few months would have been better, but at that point we'd be just going in circles about semantics.
 
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Russ

Well-known member
@Russ

To be fair (to myself), this thread is not about 2.3 in itself. It is a side argument made by myself. Largely my point was to display how the communication/support of the XF team has decreased drastically. In combination with not holding promises (XF 2.0 will make development faster + 2 new devs), it looks like nothing is done anymore. So in both directions (development and communication) there are problems. Not just 2.3. Especially I also talked about the bug reports which are growing bigger and bigger (and I can't remember them being this much before).

So brushing my thread off as "where is 2.3" is unfair to myself.


I'll be totally honest, I entirely meant my reply for the other thread. I had both open, lack of coffee :D
 

sbj

Well-known member
Of course it is good to talk about every kind of stuff. Communication is good but drifting this discussion into another XF 2.3 topic is not fair to me. I spent hours today writing down all the numbers.

Am I crazy or why is nobody bothered about a XF moderator not having written a single post in 2 years now (who has 16k posts in total and normally posts 1300 messages a year?)

Or the leading dev not having posted over a year now (who also has 27k total posts and posts 2k messages a year?). How is this normal?

I just find it odd. Of course one can say "okay, what is your problem actually?". Problem or not, I just find it odd. Like why? What happened? Where is everyone? Like for real, no 10 seconds available to them to write something, anything?

PS: Ah, I see Russ. That explains it. Thanks for being honest.
 

Nicolas FR

Well-known member
Cant Speak Nathan Fillion GIF
As if you had already explained the reasons for silence for some and absence for others ? So I missed them !
Or was there a subliminal message with the ducks on your patio ? :eek:
 

AndrewSimm

Well-known member
Very good post by @sbj. The lack of posts is concerning and the time it has taken to essentially release a handful of add-ons is also concerning. With more staff than ever you would think that releases would be more frequent.
 

AndrewSimm

Well-known member
It's more to do with the stalker level content of the OP.

Amaury would be proud.
Conclusions are drawn on evidence. I commend anyone that forms opinions based on data. Are Mike and Kier inactive developers? I don't not know and I doubt the OP knows either. Are Mike and Kier active on the forums? I guess it depends on how you define active. Are Mike and Kier posting as frequently as they were before? No, the data clearly shows this. Does forum activity correlate to dev activity? I don't think we know.
 

Nicolas FR

Well-known member
In any case, the developers of XF have an interest in proposing a heavy version 2.3 because with the level of expectation of customers if it is only 2 smileys, 1 widget and 3 boogers, I cannot guarantee their security !

Joking aside, I find it normal for some members to ask questions, the situation allows it but fundamentally XenForo is not for any of us the main subject of concern in our lives, especially in the moments that we have been living for 2 or 3 years with the pandemic and then this damn war. So nothing serious is happening here, just a little company-customer tension...

Changing the subject, does anyone know when the next version will be out ? Did the staff talk about it or not ?
 
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