Are you 'skin crazy' ?

[Alpha1]

As I modify my forums quite a lot, I do not add too many styles. Not many use anything other than the main style anyway. I do want to change it to something more professional and beautiful, but have seen very very few styles that stand above the rest. In this regard XF is very promising.

 

[Jamie]

I am not skin crazy in the sense that I have a lot of options for my users, or have a lot of skins installed.

I do however have a problem trying to find the right skin for my site. I have bought many different skins and created some myself, and I am still using a tweaked default IPB skin.

I know what I want, I just haven't seen it done, and as far as getting a designer to do it, my site runs with no donations and no ads, so affording someone that is able to do the skin is another matter.

Jamie

 

[Jason]

We only offer two, a mobile/touch style and another we created specifically to act as our default. We update both occasionally, but don't offer alternatives -- doesn't really seem worth it, as most people don't use them and it's just one more thing to maintain. I'd much rather devote time and work towards the two styles people actually use, than provide a dozen or so more styles which are frankly of lower quality.

 

[Brandon_R]

1 Skin, fast optimized and web 2.0

 

[mrGTB]

I just use the default IPB 3 Skin. Why? Because I like it!

 

[GofD]

We decided long ago that branding was more important than user choice when it comes to the look of our site. Our site is more than just the forum, though so that probably has a lot to do with it. That, and my control issues...

 

[dutchbb]

Skins are the most overrated thing on the priority list of many administrators. Most people don't even like custom skins. Most like the soberness of a default skin (one that is well thought out). A nice looking custom skin based on the design of your website: great. Buying cheap custom 'cool' skins that were not made specifically for your site: mistake. Unless that skin should fit in nicely with your site, but they rarely do. Most skins that are sold en masse look template-ish, boring, soulless and/or downright ugly. If you can't pay for a decent custom skin now, save for one and use the default one meanwhile.

 

[Kim]

Skins are the most overrated thing on the priority list of many administrators. Most people don't even like custom skins. Most like the soberness of a default skin (one that is well thought out). A nice looking custom skin based on the design of your website: great. Buying cheap custom 'cool' skins that were not made specifically for your site: mistake. Unless that skin should fit in nicely with your site, but they rarely do. Most skins that are sold en masse look template-ish, boring, soulless and/or downright ugly. If you can't pay for a decent custom skin now, save for one and use the default one meanwhile.

LOL well I couldn't disagree with you more, on all points

Recently at IPB, we were discussing Modifications, and it came out from IPB management that 90% of boards have zero modifications to them.. however it was also pointed out, that about the same figure use a Skin that is not the IPB default.

I have seen sites with a dozen skins, and all are well used, it depends on your userbase of course, many of my customers find that they get into big trouble if they try to remove a skin, and many many of my customer sites haven't yet or are only just upgrading from their 2.3 installs, due to their favourite skins not being done yet.

Skins may not be important to you, but to the vast majority of Admins and also their members they are

 

[dutchbb]

LOL well I couldn't disagree with you more, on all points

That doesn't surprise me, I was expecting a reply from you or another skin-designer actually But on all points seems strange to me. Surely you must agree with the statement that a skin needs to fit the main website?

Recently at IPB, we were discussing Modifications, and it came out from IPB management that 90% of boards have zero modifications to them.. however it was also pointed out, that about the same figure use a Skin that is not the IPB default.

That's my point, it's high on the priority list of admins, but the importance of a custom skin is overrated. Most members are happy as long as it's easy to navigate and use. They could care less if it looks like Michelangelo just got reincarnated and discovered Photoshop.

I have seen sites with a dozen skins, and all are well used, it depends on your userbase of course, many of my customers find that they get into big trouble if they try to remove a skin, and many many of my customer sites haven't yet or are only just upgrading from their 2.3 installs, due to their favourite skins not being done yet.

Skins may not be important to you, but to the vast majority of Admins and also their members they are

I can only speak for myself here, we've had some very 'cool' looking skins in the past, really nice ones. When asked, most members didn't care for them that much and after checking them out returned to default.

Again, I'm not saying custom skins are bad, I'm saying your site has an identity/house style. Your forum (or any other script) has to follow this. You can't just use anything that looks cool. Yet many do it and I see them failing every time.

 

[Kim]

But on all points seems strange to me. Surely you must agree with the statement that a skin needs to fit the main website?

that I do agree with, there has to be some common look and feel and navigation throughout the site, other wise it can look cobbled together.

The rest.. no I don't agree, I think that is your opinion, and of course you are welcome to it, but that is all it is, your statement of "most people" not caring is clearly incorrect factually in the case of IPB, and I can only assume all other forum software, whether you believe it or not

One of the reasons almost everyone has given for liking xenforo so much despite not having seen the back end.. is the front end It is the only Default skin that works out of all the current batch, and it works well.. but most people still don't want their online home to look just like everyone elses' they want to differentiate - even if that means a pre-made skin instead of a custom skin, it's still more personalised than the Default skin.

I went to that other site that is running xenforo today.. and it was kind of weird, even though of course I know this is the default skin for xenforo and before long there will be lots of them everywhere.. I didn't like that site having it it felt weird to be on another site that looked just like this one... and I am a skin designer LOL.

 

[dutchbb]

I want to make clear that I do not hate skins, and I'm not saying they are always worse than keeping it default.

I'm saying that you see a lot of these custom made skins on forums that are completely dead. It's a typical newbie mistake with admins: they start up a forum, they think it needs to look awesome to draw traffic, they spend (some a huge amount of) money on design, and then that forum sits there and will never ever succeed.

So my point is that having a custom skin (especially the ones that are sold en masse) is not going to make your forum/site succeed. Ease of use, good structure and unique content are the things that really matter.

I think you must have misunderstood me somewhere (or I explained it not clearly enough) but I'm all for customization when it's done right. Making a site look unique is a good thing. So I completely agree with you on this. Just don't think this is high priority for most visitors. And in a lot of cases the default skin looks much better than what is used instead.

 

[Kim]

I want to make clear that I do not hate skins, and I'm not saying they are always worse than keeping it default.

There is no one thing that will guarantee a forums success that is for sure, I agree that skins, or mods or any one thing will not ensure a busy forum, but that is not to say that they cannot greatly enhance a forum to the extent that they become an integral part of that forums success.

Most of my customers and clients are not newbies, (I in fact don't sell to new installs for security reasons, unless they are already established elsewhere and it is an offshoot or conversion) they are established sites for whom having one of my skins and NOT having the default skin is often more important to them than new functionality etc that a totally new version offers.. that is how strongly they feel about it, whilst I respect your opinion, and I too have seen some dreadful skins, along with plenty of awesome ones... I know if I go to a forum with just the IPB or vB default skin, my immediate impression is that the owners don't care.. or that they are new to forums and haven't discovered skins yet .. it doesn't make me want to hang around their forums.

Now I know that some people are always going to not care, and some people are always going to prefer the basic (and frankly ugly) default skins offered currently.. but it is not most people some people can live in a shiny white box with no furniture .. others like a rich and padded decore.. and yet others just don't care that much, but "Most" people do care it was that I was debating with you more than anything.

 

[dutchbb]

I know if I go to a forum with just the IPB or vB default skin, my immediate impression is that the owners don't care.. or that they are new to forums and haven't discovered skins yet .. it doesn't make me want to hang around their forums.

When I see a (busy) forum with lots of content, with the default skin, I know the admin cared and cares about the right things!

Not one user on our forums has ever complained about a lack of skins. Most, like me, like the default vB 3.x skin. And it seems a lot of people want to hang around our forums, being #371 on big boards

Having said this, I'm looking forward to using XF instead, which has an even better default skin Just a header & footer change would make it unique enough for us

(PS: I like the fact that a lot of admins don't like to use the default skin, that makes my forum look more unique )

 

[Kim]

LOL, well I guess we are never going to agree...Yeah, like I said it depends very much on the userbase Glad it works for you and your site using the default skin... I know there are plenty of big sites that use the default skin, to me it will always look cheap, and shows a lack of personality, most big boards are purely commercial operations, and frankly they don't care one hoot about what their members want, so long as they keep coming... look at IB as a classic example of that, what they have done to vB is indicative of most "big board" operators, they are predominately commercial organisations.

Heck you can do a simple colour change to the default skin in 10 minutes - why stick with what anyone can have out of the box, you don't have to buy a skin, but make some effort - I just don't get the lack of originality.

My big objection to your first post was the "most people" and I say again.. what works for you or even your big site is not "most people" It's your opinion based on your experience of one site.. yours, it is a very subjective view.

 

[dutchbb]

Heck you can do a simple colour change to the default skin in 10 minutes - why stick with what anyone can have out of the box, you don't have to buy a skin, but make some effort - I just don't get the lack of originality.

Did it ever cross your mind though, that I (and others) just like the color scheme of this particular skin? It's not about the efford. I spend an enormous ammount of time on my forums, mostly making content, and making sure everything stays secure, and functionality of it is flawless. For me the logo and the simplicity is what makes the house style on our forums. Even though it has the default skin, the little customization it has still makes it very recognizable compared to other sites.

I can understand though why this might be difficult to understand for some people. I never cared much for complete customization, I guess this is something very personal and some think it's important while others don't care for it that much

My big objection to your first post was the "most people" and I say again.. what works for you or even your big site is not "most people" It's your opinion based on your experience of one site.. yours, it is a very subjective view.

You have a point there, and my first post seems a bit too strong about it now that I read it again. One example of forums where people care a lot about the skin are game forums. But they too need a custom skin that looks good and fits their main site (if they have one). A $50 custom skin is still a bad choice IMO.

I will rephrase my initial statement: 'Most people don't even like custom skins if they look worse than the default.' I think you might find that a more reasonable statement.

 

[Kim]

Did it ever cross your mind though, that I (and others) just like the color scheme of this particular skin? It's not about the efford. I spend an enormous ammount of time on my forums, mostly making content, and making sure everything stays secure, and functionality of it is flawless. For me the logo and the simplicity is what makes the house style on our forums. Even though it has the default skin, the little customization it has still makes it very recognizable compared to other sites.

I can understand though why this might be difficult to understand for some people. I never cared much for complete customization, I guess this is something very personal and some think it's important while others don't care for it that much


You have a point there, and my first post seems a bit too strong about it now that I read it again. One example of forums where people care a lot about the skin are game forums. But they too need a custom skin that looks good and fits their main site (if they have one). A $50 custom skin is still a bad choice IMO.

I will rephrase my initial statement: 'Most people don't even like custom skins if they look worse than the default.' I think you might find that a more reasonable statement.

Your site is clearly an exception to the big board rule, in that it is run by an individual for love not money.. someone who cares, and obviously devotes a lot of time to it on the content side. As I said, I am happy for you that the default works for you, and glad you like those colours - In my very subjective view, they are ugly, boring and unoriginal and I will always think that, the default IPB and vB skins are bleh <--- My Opinion - but then I am not a blue person at all. The entire internet is various shades of good old blue.. and it gets so very boring for someone who isn't a blue person.

I have a huge bunch of paying customers worth of examples of sites who care a lot about skins, it is not just gaming sites - I don't even do specifically gaming skins.

Anyway, I am going to leave this discussion now, as I can see no sense in us going back and forth .. I like it.. I don't yadda yadda ... let us just agree to disagree.

 

[dutchbb]

Your site is clearly an exception to the big board rule, in that it is run by an individual for love not money.. someone who cares, and obviously devotes a lot of time to it on the content side. As I said, I am happy for you that the default works for you, and glad you like those colours - In my very subjective view, they are ugly, boring and unoriginal and I will always think that, the default IPB and vB skins are bleh <--- My Opinion - but then I am not a blue person at all. The entire internet is various shades of good old blue.. and it gets so very boring for someone who isn't a blue person.

I have a huge bunch of paying customers worth of examples of sites who care a lot about skins, it is not just gaming sites - I don't even do specifically gaming skins.

Anyway, I am going to leave this discussion now, as I can see no sense in us going back and forth .. I like it.. I don't yadda yadda ... let us just agree to disagree.

This

 

[Jethro]

Just a comment, I tend to join any number of forums to help out fellow Admins with an extra member etc, if the default skin is in use I don't bother, regardless of product, as to me that indicates the Admin cannot be bothered and is just throwing a forum onto their site. That's a personal view but am pretty sure you might find a lot of potential members with the same attitude.

We had this nifty mod at one site that told Admins what skins members were using, surprising the amount of blokes who went with a pink option on one site. Expect the unexpected imho.

 

[Steffi]

2, where one of them is the vB4 Defaulttheme, in my Liveforums.

On my external Harddisk I'd about 50 vB3-Themes (Designed and Adopted by me!).