AI generated Thread Summary, Tags, Prefix, SEO Meta, Thread cover, etc.

Alpha1

Alpha1

Well-known member
AI / LLM's can be used to make threads and other content more useful and better organized. For better usability, SEO, content discovery and readability.

One of the challenges of using forums is reading through mega-threads with thousands of replies. Especially if high quality replies and useless comments are mixed. For this reasons there have been many requests for a summary feature over the years. Now with the advent of AI the technology to create good summaries for large amounts of text is possible.

Some other challenges for forums are:
  1. Correcting useless thread titles. i.e. 'HELP ME NOW!!!' or 'Dumb question'.
  2. Optimal SEO meta tags.
  3. Useful thread tags.
  4. Correct thread prefix.
  5. Correct thread type. i.e. a Question posted as a Discussion Type.
  6. Making forum threads look better with images.
  7. Making unreadable posts readable. When users post broken English, chat speak, mobile t9 autocomplete suggests wrong words, ALL CAPS, no punctuation, no line breaks wall of text, no formatting, then it can make posts completely unreadable to others.
  8. Link to related content from other content types for better content discovery. For example if XFRM has a resource that addresses the topic in a thread.
These can be daunting tasks and many admins don't even bother because of the scale of fixing all that.
Some forum platforms like Discourse and Quora have already implemented some LLM solutions. For example:
meta.discourse.org

Discourse AI Topic Summary 🤖

ℹ Summary Uses a remote AI language model to prepare and post a summary of a topic. 🛠 Repository Link GitHub - merefield/discourse-ai-topic-summary: Uses a remote AI language model to prepare and post a summary of a Topic 📖 Install Guide How to install plugins in Discourse Enjoying this...
meta.discourse.org meta.discourse.org
meta.discourse.org

Discourse AI

:discourse2: Summary Integration between AI features and Discourse 🌐 Website Discourse AI Features | Discourse - Civilized Discussion 🛠 Repository Link GitHub - discourse/discourse-ai 📖 Install Guide How to install plugins in Discourse Discourse AI Discourse AI is our one-stop...
meta.discourse.org meta.discourse.org

Once an LLM understands the meaning of the thread, the LLM can create the following with the data:
  1. A thread summary. (widget)
  2. A better thread snippet.
  3. Suggest a better thread title.
  4. SEO meta tags: Meta title, Meta Description, Meta Keywords, etc.
  5. Thread tags.
  6. Select Thread prefix.
  7. Select Thread Type.
  8. Thread cover, caption and thumb. This would make forum content look much better.
  9. Making unreadable posts readable. (correct spelling mistakes)
  10. Display related content. (Widget to display related content from all content types)
And the same for all content types. (XFRM, XFMG, Add-ons)
Please consider to add LLM functionality to let AI / LLM suggest the above.

As there are costs for the use of AI / LLM, it would require various limits on when analysis takes place. For example generate x,y,z only after x posts have been made. Or add a budget for AI credits.
As LLM generated data can be erroneous, methods of correct are needed like community editing of summaries or admin view of new tags.
 
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Upvote 23
So, if you had a summary, that would be good. However, people come to forums for human connection, too. Some want to read every reply to learn what that person has dealt with and how they dealt with it, and perhaps follow up with them 1-on-1 in another reply.

If you summarize everything, you've removed the human element from a forum, making it essentially a blog (or wiki) with multiple contributors that lacks the human depth or emotion a community should offer with different writing styles, tones, etc., all coming from people of different backgrounds and experiences.

That aside, a summary = 1 page view while a thread with 1000 replies = 50 potential page views (provided defaults)... It might be low on CPM, but there are 50 chances that a proper ad may show up, and with a CTR of 2%, that's a chance of 1 click that could be $0.10 to $10 ($25+ in some niches).

The summary might pull the greatest ads to make that point moot, but if you are running ad contracts, they want views, too. However, they could have a higher CTR with 10 impressions than 1000 impressions, so they might stick around.

In other words, this sounds like turning a community into a wiki, essentially, that would cite which post that section of the summary came from (hopefully). But, the question still remains: Where is the line between interaction and just a page view when we're speaking in terms of a forum and communication? A user might as well fire up ChatGPT to give them the answer.

There's also the ranking factor. Would the summary even rank higher than threads do? It's AI-generated content that may or may not be accurate because the data it's summarizing is all over the place. If Google sees that your summary is inaccurate, it might bury the page completely because of 1 user's "misinformation" summarized into the facts.

Alpha1 said:
Making unreadable posts readable. (correct spelling mistakes)
Click to expand...

This isn't always a good thing either as if not prompted right, wit ill just make a bland AI response that sounds robotic, turning a lot of people off.

A lot I could agree with, though, such as prefixes. If the LLM understood the content and there was a thread prefix helper set, it could automatically prefix it how the admin set the prefixes.

Tags are another good thing, same as titles to fit the 140-160 character length.

But, a summary is where I'm at a loss.
 
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Wildcat Media said:
Certainly does to me...everything "AI" touches reads like it's been processed by a machine.
Click to expand...
Aside from the point of it sounding robotic (which you can somewhat mitigate with the right prompts), this is a summary of this suggestion so far that Alpha1 would want in a widget, presumably on Page 1 when there could be 10 pages of discussions.

Thread Summary Widget​
@Alpha1 suggested integrating AI/LLM features directly into XenForo’s core to improve usability, SEO, and content organization. Features proposed include automatic thread summaries, better tags, prefixes, SEO metadata, improved thread titles, enhanced readability, and related content links—all optional and admin-controlled, with cost limits and manual correction options. @findozor doubted such features would make it into the core but expressed interest in commissioning an add-on. @PhineasD supported the idea, specifically pointing out that an AI spell checker could also help SEO. @Alpha1 agreed, confirming readability improvements are part of the plan.

However, @frm raised concerns that AI summaries might strip forums of their human element, making them feel more like wikis and possibly affecting user engagement, ad revenue, and SEO rankings due to inaccuracies. They were open to AI handling prefixes, tags, and titles but skeptical about summaries. @Alpha1 clarified that summaries would simply be an optional widget without replacing the thread itself.

@ProCom backed @Alpha1’s idea, referencing how similar AI summaries help digest messy content on platforms like Amazon and Facebook. @Wildcat Media, conversely, strongly opposed any core AI integration, criticizing AI-generated content's robotic tone and stating they’d leave XenForo if implemented.

The suggestion currently holds 11 votes, reflecting niche interest. Is this something you would want to add to your forum?

After reading that, ignoring the robotic-like tone, if this thread had 10 pages, on a scale of 1 to 10 how inclined would you be to go past page 2?
 
I don't think that is a good example. With the right prompt an LLM can create a much better and much more useful Thread Summary. Having a summary of a few posts will not be useful by definition. Because there is nothing of substance to summarize. Having a summary of 500 posts can be very useful. A summary would likely only be useful to display after X number of posts,

Keep in mind that the thread summary is just one detail of many parts of this suggestion and that as always XenForo only implements functionality as optional features that you can turn on if you feel it enhances your site or leave off if you don't like it. Nothing is forced upon you.

The main concept of this suggestion is that LLM first creates a summary so it understands the meaning of the the thread. That summary may or may not be visible in a widget. Once the meaning of the thread is clear, then LLM can enhance the thread with various things that the admin may want to activate: better title, snippet, SEO meta tags, thread tags, select the proper forum, proper prefix, create a nice looking thread cover, related content, etc.
The purpose is to enhance threads and make them richer in content and more usable, in line with the preferences of the admin.
Whether or not to display the summary itself is trivial to me. That's really not the main point here.

And I also think that if used in the right way, it would be a major boost to forum SEO if forum threads would get optimized well. i.e. more traffic.
 
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Alpha1 said:
I don't think that is a good example. With the right prompt an LLM can create a much better and much more useful Thread Summary. Having a summary of a few posts will not be useful by definition. Because there is nothing of substance to summarize. Having a summary of 500 posts can be very useful. A summary would likely only be useful to display after X number of posts,

Keep in mind that the thread summary is just one detail of many parts of this suggestion and that as always XenForo only implements functionality as optional features that you can turn on if you feel it enhances your site or leave off if you don't like it. Nothing is forced upon you.

The main concept of this suggestion is that LLM first creates a summary so it understands the meaning of the the thread. That summary may or may not be visible in a widget. Once the meaning of the thread is clear, then LLM can enhance the thread with various things that the admin may want to activate: better title, snippet, SEO meta tags, thread tags, select the proper forum, proper prefix, create a nice looking thread cover, related content, etc.
The purpose is to enhance threads and make them richer in content and more usable, in line with the preferences of the admin.
Whether or not to display the summary itself is trivial to me. That's really not the main point here.

And I also think that if used in the right way, it would be a major boost to forum SEO if forum threads would get optimized well. i.e. more traffic.
Click to expand...
Give me a thread on your site in a PM or a thread here on XenForo meeting that criteria and I will build out a better summary.

(If from your site, it'd be very helpful to SELECT message FROM xf_post WHERE thread_id = X; to make it much quicker -- including the username which I could create placeholders for to not violate privacy would help summarize it in a more "community" fashion)

The question, still, after that, as a visitor landing there (miraculously from Google), would you be inclined to go past page 2 or deeper than 2 pages from where you landed?

Edit: You're also talking about a lot of cash to summarize a 500-post thread in Open AI credits to get it right, as it might need summarizing again after the next 500 posts (tripling the costs).

Edit 2: Considering pricing, it's highly unlikely that a thread of 500 posts would exceed 750,000 words. But, perhaps one of 1000 would. There would be ways to strip out words to save money (like ignoring "good point", etc. by quoting people and stripping BBCode/links/etc.). But, let's just assume you have a 1000-post thread with 750,000 words. A summary would be $75 (as that's 1M tokens) with the model that you would probably want to use as it's more creative (can sound more human without forcing it through commands).

When you put that into perspective, even a thread with 750 words to be summarized down to 100 would cost roughly 55 cents.

I would say that a summary is out of most forums' budget.

I'm with you on SEO for titles (kind of questioning titles now as it would rely on the content posted, or the potential of 750 words, whereas tags can be made based on the title of 10-30 words) and tags, but to process a 750-word post to check for spelling and grammar to cost me 55 cents to fix their errors is not an investment I'd consider making, maybe testing over a month to see if it does have an ROI, but it would be hard to front that kind of money to burn in an experiment too. That would burn through probably 99.9% of the forum's revenue, if they have any to begin with.
 
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The reviews summary on Amazon is a nice example of how it is useful to have an AI summary.
Now imagine the same for a XF Resource with a lot of reviews.
xenforo.com

[Andrew] Moderator Panel - Reviews

xenforo.com xenforo.com

This gives the reader a general idea at a glance. Its a bit more information than the review stars give. I'd personally read that summary and then move on to read some reviews. Without the summary I would also not read all reviews. The summary just helps. For threads, it would be the same.

frm said:
The question, still, after that, as a visitor landing there (miraculously from Google), would you be inclined to go past page 2 or deeper than 2 pages from where you landed?
Click to expand...
There is no answer to the question because it greatly depends on the intent of the user and the content of the thread. Clearly its not useful to have a summary of social banter and a summary of banter may dissuade the user from reading on. But if the user is looking for technical information that is hard to digest and needs to resolve a very specific issue, then a summary of a 100´s of posts can be a useful starting point.
It therefore depends on the type of community as well. If you have general chat forum like your ChanForo.com then I highly doubt that it would be useful to display a summary on threads. But if you have a community offering long threads with useful information, then readers will appreciate the summary as a starting point. Practically no one is going to fully read a 1000 post thread though.
 
Alpha1 said:
general chat forum like your ChanForo.com
Click to expand...
That's the framework of an image board so no text really.
Alpha1 said:
Practically no one is going to fully read a 1000 post thread though.
Click to expand...
You're ignoring the cost of creating a summary though. Just to summarize your reply, taking out the link and quote:
The reviews summary on Amazon is a nice example of how it is useful to have an AI summary.
Now imagine the same for a XF Resource with a lot of reviews.
This gives the reader a general idea at a glance. Its a bit more information than the review stars give. I'd personally read that summary and then move on to read some reviews. Without the summary I would also not read all reviews. The summary just helps. For threads, it would be the same.
There is no answer to the question because it greatly depends on the intent of the user and the content of the thread. Clearly its not useful to have a summary of social banter and a summary of banter may dissuade the user from reading on. But if the user is looking for technical information that is hard to digest and needs to resolve a very specific issue, then a summary of a 100´s of posts can be a useful starting point.
It therefore depends on the type of community as well. If you have general chat forum like your ChanForo.com then I highly doubt that it would be useful to display a summary on threads. But if you have a community offering long threads with useful information, then readers will appreciate the summary as a starting point. Practically no one is going to fully read a 1000 post thread though.
Click to expand...
To 75 words:
75 word ChatGPT summary said:
An AI-generated summary, like Amazon’s review summaries, is helpful for quickly grasping key points, especially for XF Resources with many reviews. It offers more insight than star ratings alone and encourages further reading. For threads, the usefulness depends on the content and user intent. Summarizing technical, information-rich threads aids readers, while summarizing casual banter isn't beneficial. Communities focused on in-depth discussions will benefit most, whereas general chat forums like ChanForo.com likely won’t see much value in thread summaries.
Click to expand...
Is 267 tokens.

If we're talking GPT4.5, it's $75 per 1M tokens ($0.02). But, 4o might be capable of doing it at $2.5 per 1M tokens ($0.0006).

A thread of 750,000 words is $75 to summarize with GPT4.5 and $2.5 with 4o (half price if you put them on a delay). I don't know which would give the best output. But, things get costly quite quickly. I think you're overlooking that when you are saying summarize a thread because it can't only be one and done as threads are always added to unless you lock it. Then in that case, you're paying to summarize a title and tags based on the 267 token ($0.02 to $0.0006) original post and the subsequent cost to summarize it each time it's added to, or every 20 posts, or another arbitrary number of when to summarize the thread.
 
frm said:
You're ignoring the cost of creating a summary though
Click to expand...
Costs are coming down and OpenRouter AI has free LLM model usage too that you can use. I'm pushing 40 million tokens/month now for practically free while developing my or-cli.py LLM script :D

For example, I asked my or-cli.py script to summarize this thread and also provide further suggestions

time python or-cli.py --webpage https://xenforo.com/community/threa...tags-prefix-seo-meta-thread-cover-etc.229871/ | python or-cli.py -p "Act like expert summarizer. Summarize the discussed topics and all users' sentiments for the Xenforo forum discussion thread. Provide an ultra detailed and accurate summary. Accuracy is paramount. Do not introduce any information, opinions, or interpretations that are not present in the original text. Write the summary in a neutral, conversational tone that reflects the style of the original content. Avoid editorializing or drawing conclusions beyond what is explicitly stated." -t --temperature 0.5 --model mistralai/mistral-small-24b-instruct-2501:free --skip-cache --follow-up "Are there any other suggestions on how to integrate AI into Xenforo that you can think of"
Click to expand...
It gave me for free this response

----- Assistant Response -----
### Summary of the XenForo Forum Discussion Thread

The discussion thread revolves around the potential use of AI and Large Language Models (LLMs) to enhance forum functionality, usability, and SEO. Here's a detailed summary of the topics discussed and the sentiments of the users:

#### Topics Discussed

1. AI/LLM Integration in Forums:
- Alpha1 proposed using AI/LLMs to improve forum content organization, readability, and SEO. This includes generating thread summaries, better thread snippets, improved thread titles, SEO meta tags, thread tags, proper thread prefixes, thread covers, and related content links.
- findozor expressed doubt that such features would be added to the core but was willing to commission an add-on with similar functionality.
- PhineasD suggested including an AI spell checker to improve SEO, which Alpha1 agreed would be part of the proposal.

2. Benefits and Challenges:
- Alpha1 highlighted the challenges of reading through long threads and the potential of AI to summarize and organize content better.
- frm raised concerns about the human element of forums being lost if everything is summarized, potentially turning forums into wikis. They also discussed the impact on ad revenue and SEO rankings due to inaccuracies in AI-generated content.
- Alpha1 clarified that the summary would be an optional widget and would not replace the thread itself, adding extra content rather than removing any.

3. Examples and Use Cases:
- ProCom found AI summaries helpful on platforms like Amazon and Facebook for digesting large amounts of content.
- Wildcat Media expressed strong opposition to AI integration, stating they would leave XenForo if AI features were built into the core, citing the robotic tone of AI-generated content.
- Alpha1 provided an example of Amazon's review summaries to illustrate the usefulness of AI summaries in forums.

4. Cost and Implementation:
- frm discussed the cost implications of using AI for summarizing long threads, estimating the cost based on the number of tokens and the model used. They also questioned the return on investment (ROI) for such features.
- Alpha1 mentioned that the summary is just one part of the overall suggestion, with the main goal being to enhance threads with various AI-generated features based on admin preferences.

5. User Intent and Community Type:
- Alpha1 and frm discussed how the usefulness of a summary depends on the intent of the user and the type of community. Technical or information-rich threads would benefit more from summaries than general chat forums.

#### Sentiments of Users

- Alpha1:
- Positive: Enthusiastic about the potential of AI/LLMs to enhance forum functionality, usability, and SEO.
- Neutral: Acknowledged the challenges and costs associated with AI implementation but sees it as a valuable addition.
- Negative: None explicitly stated.

- findozor:
- Positive: Willing to commission an add-on with similar functionality.
- Neutral: Doubtful that such features would be added to the core.
- Negative: None explicitly stated.

- PhineasD:
- Positive: Suggested an AI spell checker to improve SEO.
- Neutral: None explicitly stated.
- Negative: None explicitly stated.

- frm:
- Positive: Open to AI handling prefixes, tags, and titles; found AI summaries helpful in some contexts.
- Neutral: Raised concerns about the human element, ad revenue, and SEO rankings.
- Negative: Skeptical about the usefulness of summaries and the cost implications.

- ProCom:
- Positive: Found AI summaries helpful on other platforms and supported the idea for XenForo.
- Neutral: None explicitly stated.
- Negative: None explicitly stated.

- Wildcat Media:
- Positive: None explicitly stated.
- Neutral: None explicitly stated.
- Negative: Strongly opposed to AI integration due to the robotic tone of AI-generated content.

The discussion reflects a mix of enthusiasm, skepticism, and concern about the potential integration of AI/LLMs into XenForo, with users highlighting both the benefits and challenges of such implementation.

----- Generation Stats -----
Model Used: mistralai/mistral-small-24b-instruct-2501:free
Provider Name: Chutes
Generation Time: 9423 ms
Prompt Tokens: 5450
Completion Tokens: 916
Total Tokens: 6366
Total Cost: $0.00000000
Usage: 0
Latency: 1871 ms
Native Tokens Prompt: 5702
Native Tokens Completion: 917
Native Tokens Reasoning: 0
Native Tokens Total: 6619
Cache Discount: None
Temperature: 0.5
Top P: 1.0
Seed: None
Max Tokens: None
Compress: False
Compress Rate (Setting): 0.4
Original Tokens (LLMLingua-2): N/A
Compressed Tokens (LLMLingua-2): N/A
Compression Rate (LLMLingua-2): N/A
Saving (LLMLingua-2): N/A
LLMLingua-2 max_batch_size: N/A
LLMLingua-2 max_force_token: N/A

----- Follow-up Assistant Response -----
Based on the provided discussion, here are some additional suggestions for integrating AI into XenForo, derived from the topics and sentiments expressed by the users:

1. AI-Driven Moderation:
- Sentiment: frm and Wildcat Media expressed concerns about the human element and the potential loss of community depth.
- Suggestion: Implement AI-driven moderation tools to help admins manage content more efficiently. This could include automatic flagging of inappropriate content, spam detection, and even suggesting actions for moderators to take.
- Topic: This aligns with Alpha1's idea of enhancing threads with AI-generated features, but focuses more on moderation and community management.

2. AI-Powered User Engagement:
- Sentiment: frm mentioned the importance of human connection and the potential loss of depth in forums.
- Suggestion: Use AI to enhance user engagement by suggesting relevant threads, users, or content based on a user's activity and interests. This could help maintain the human element while providing a more personalized experience.
- Topic: This is related to Alpha1's idea of displaying related content, but focuses more on user engagement and personalization.

3. AI-Assisted Content Creation:
- Sentiment: Alpha1 highlighted the challenges of creating useful and well-organized content in forums.
- Suggestion: Implement AI tools to assist users in creating better content. This could include AI-driven writing assistants, suggestion for thread titles, tags, and even drafts for replies.
- Topic: This builds upon Alpha1's proposal for AI-generated thread titles, tags, and summaries, but focuses more on assisting users in creating content.

4. AI for Forum Analytics:
- Sentiment: frm discussed the impact of AI-generated content on ad revenue and SEO rankings.
- Suggestion: Use AI to provide more detailed and actionable analytics for forum admins. This could include insights into user behavior, content performance, and even predictive analytics to help admins make data-driven decisions.
- Topic: This is related to Alpha1's idea of enhancing threads with AI-generated features, but focuses more on providing analytics and insights for admins.

5. AI Chatbots for Support:
- Sentiment: Wildcat Media expressed concern about the robotic tone of AI-generated content.
- Suggestion: Implement AI chatbots to provide support and assistance to users. These chatbots could be designed to have a more natural and conversational tone, helping to address user concerns and questions without detracting from the human element of the community.
- Topic: This is a new suggestion that builds upon the idea of using AI to enhance user experience, but focuses more on providing support and assistance.

6. AI for Accessibility:
- Sentiment: Alpha1 mentioned making unreadable posts readable.
- Suggestion: Use AI to improve the accessibility of forum content. This could include automatic text-to-speech functionality, image description generation, and even real-time translation services to make forums more accessible to users with disabilities or those who speak different languages.
- Topic: This is related to Alpha1's idea of making unreadable posts readable, but focuses more on improving accessibility for all users.

These suggestions build upon the ideas and sentiments expressed in the original discussion, providing additional ways to integrate AI into XenForo while addressing the concerns and challenges highlighted by the users.

----- Follow-up Generation Stats -----

----- Generation Stats -----
Model Used: mistralai/mistral-small-24b-instruct-2501:free
Provider Name: Chutes
Generation Time: 7816 ms
Prompt Tokens: 6392
Completion Tokens: 739
Total Tokens: 7131
Total Cost: $0.00000000
Usage: 0
Latency: 1718 ms
Native Tokens Prompt: 6640
Native Tokens Completion: 746
Native Tokens Reasoning: 0
Native Tokens Total: 7386
Cache Discount: None
Temperature: 0.5
Top P: 1.0
Seed: None
Max Tokens: None
Compress: False
Compress Rate (Setting): 0.4
Original Tokens (LLMLingua-2): N/A
Compressed Tokens (LLMLingua-2): N/A
Compression Rate (LLMLingua-2): N/A
Saving (LLMLingua-2): N/A
LLMLingua-2 max_batch_size: N/A
LLMLingua-2 max_force_token: N/A

real 0m33.147s
user 0m10.874s
sys 0m0.824s
Click to expand...
 
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frm said:
A thread of 750,000 words is $75 to summarize with GPT4.5 and $2.5 with 4o (half price if you put them on a delay). I don't know which would give the best output. But, things get costly quite quickly. I think you're overlooking that when you are saying summarize a thread because it can't only be one and done as threads are always added to unless you lock it. Then in that case, you're paying to summarize a title and tags based on the 267 token ($0.02 to $0.0006) original post and the subsequent cost to summarize it each time it's added to, or every 20 posts, or another arbitrary number of when to summarize the thread.
Click to expand...
Also, look into prompt compression techniques like Microsoft LLMLingua, which can reduce prompt input tokens by between 20-80% and also fine tuning prompts to reduce overall token count i.e. Chain of Draft prompting.

Some examples of Microsoft LLMLingua in action:
Comparison of token usage for baseline, CoT and CoD examples.

MethodNative Tokens PromptNative Tokens CompletionNative Tokens ReasoningNative Tokens TotalTotal % Diff (vs. Baseline)Reasoning + Total
Baseline625764226380%1060
Chain of Thought62695525757+18.6%1282
Chain of Draft66468362534-16.3%896

example of re-running summary against this thread with LLMLingua 0.75 compression rate which resulted in 18-24% reduction in prompt token inputs :)

time python or-cli.py --webpage https://xenforo.com/community/threa...tags-prefix-seo-meta-thread-cover-etc.229871/ | python or-cli.py -p "Act like expert summarizer. Summarize the discussed topics and all users' sentiments for the Xenforo forum discussion thread. Provide an ultra detailed and accurate summary. Accuracy is paramount. Do not introduce any information, opinions, or interpretations that are not present in the original text. Write the summary in a neutral, conversational tone that reflects the style of the original content. Avoid editorializing or drawing conclusions beyond what is explicitly stated." -t --temperature 0.5 --model mistralai/mistral-small-24b-instruct-2501:free --skip-cache --follow-up "Are there any other suggestions on how to integrate AI into Xenforo that you can think of" --compress --compress-rate 0.75
Click to expand...

----- Assistant Response -----
The XenForo forum discussion thread revolves around the potential use of AI and Large Language Models (LLMs) to enhance forum functionality, usability, and SEO. Here's a detailed summary of the topics discussed and the sentiments of the users:

### Topics Discussed

1. AI/LLM Integration in Forums:
- Alpha1 proposed using AI/LLMs to improve forum content organization, readability, and SEO. This includes generating thread summaries, better thread snippets, improved thread titles, SEO meta tags, tags, prefixes, covers, and related content links.
- findozor expressed doubt that these features would be added to the core but was willing to commission an add-on with similar functionality.
- PhineasD suggested an AI spell checker to improve SEO, which Alpha1 agreed was part of the proposal.

2. Benefits and Challenges:
- The discussion highlighted the challenges of reading through long threads and the potential of AI to summarize and organize content better.
- frm raised concerns about the human element in forums being lost if summarized, turning forums into wikis. They also discussed the impact on ad revenue and SEO rankings due to inaccuracies in AI-generated content.
- Alpha1 clarified that the summary would be an optional widget and would not replace the thread, adding extra content instead.

3. Examples and Use Cases:
- ProCom found AI summaries helpful on platforms like Amazon and Facebook for digesting large content.
- Wildcat Media opposed AI integration, stating they would leave XenForo if AI features were built into the core, citing the robotic tone of AI-generated content.
- Alpha1 provided an example of Amazon's review summaries and their usefulness, suggesting similar AI summaries for forums.

4. Cost and Implementation:
- The cost implications of AI for summarizing long threads were discussed, estimating the cost based on the number of tokens and the model used. The return on investment (ROI) for these features was also questioned.
- Alpha1 mentioned that the summary was just one part of the overall suggestion, with the goal of enhancing threads with AI-generated features based on admin preferences.

5. User Intent and Community Type:
- The usefulness of summaries was discussed in relation to the intent of the user and the type of community. Technical information-rich threads were seen as benefiting more from summaries than general chat forums.

### Sentiments of Users

- Alpha1:
- Positive: Enthusiastic about the potential of AI/LLMs to enhance forum functionality, usability, and SEO.
- Neutral: Acknowledged the challenges and costs of AI implementation but saw it as a valuable addition.
- Negative: None.

- findozor:
- Positive: Willing to commission an add-on with similar functionality.
- Neutral: Doubtful that the features would be added to the core.
- Negative: None.

- PhineasD:
- Positive: Suggested an AI spell checker to improve SEO.
- Neutral: None.
- Negative: None.

- frm:
- Positive: Open to AI handling prefixes, tags, and titles, and found AI summaries helpful.
- Negative: Raised concerns about the human element, ad revenue, and SEO rankings. Skeptical about the usefulness of summaries and cost implications.

- ProCom:
- Positive: Found AI summaries helpful and supported the idea for XenForo.
- Neutral: None.
- Negative: None.

- Wildcat Media:
- Positive: None.
- Neutral: None.
- Negative: Opposed to AI integration due to the robotic tone of AI-generated content.

### Additional Points

- eva2000 mentioned that costs for AI usage are coming down and provided an example of a free LLM model usage. They also discussed prompt compression techniques to reduce token usage and costs.

The discussion reflects a mix of enthusiasm, skepticism, and concern about the potential integration of AI/LLMs into XenForo, with users highlighting both the benefits and challenges of implementation.

----- Generation Stats -----
Model Used: mistralai/mistral-small-24b-instruct-2501:free
Provider Name: Chutes
Generation Time: 16857 ms
Prompt Tokens: 6760
Completion Tokens: 873
Total Tokens: 7633
Total Cost: $0.00000000
Usage: 0
Latency: 1388 ms
Native Tokens Prompt: 7490
Native Tokens Completion: 891
Native Tokens Reasoning: 0
Native Tokens Total: 8381
Cache Discount: None
Temperature: 0.5
Top P: 1.0
Seed: None
Max Tokens: None
Compress: True
Compress Rate (Setting): 0.75
Original Tokens (LLMLingua-2): 8210
Compressed Tokens (LLMLingua-2): 6709
Compression Rate (LLMLingua-2): 1.2x
Saving (LLMLingua-2): 18.283%
LLMLingua-2 max_batch_size: 400
LLMLingua-2 max_force_token: 10000

----- Follow-up Assistant Response -----
Based on the provided discussion, there are no additional suggestions on how to integrate AI into XenForo that were explicitly stated by the users. The conversation primarily focused on the use of AI for generating thread summaries, improving SEO, and enhancing content readability. However, eva2000 did provide some follow-up suggestions based on the original discussion, which include:

1. AI-Driven Moderation:
- Implement AI-driven moderation tools to help admins manage content, such as automatic flagging of inappropriate content and spam detection.

2. AI-Powered User Engagement:
- Use AI to enhance user engagement by suggesting relevant threads, users, and content based on activity and interests, maintaining the human element while providing a personalized experience.

3. AI-Assisted Content Creation:
- Implement AI tools to assist users in creating better content, including AI-driven writing assistants, suggestions for thread titles, tags, and drafts for replies.

4. AI for Forum Analytics:
- Use AI to provide detailed and actionable analytics for forum admins, including insights into user behavior, content performance, and predictive analytics to help admins make data-driven decisions.

5. AI Chatbots for Support:
- Implement AI chatbots to provide support and assistance to users, addressing concerns and questions in a natural, conversational tone without detracting from the human element of the community.

6. AI for Accessibility:
- Use AI to improve the accessibility of forum content, including automatic text-to-speech functionality, image description generation, and real-time translation services to make forums accessible to users with disabilities and different languages.

These suggestions build upon the ideas and sentiments expressed in the original discussion, providing additional ways to integrate AI into XenForo while addressing some of the concerns and challenges raised by the users.

----- Follow-up Generation Stats -----

----- Generation Stats -----
Model Used: mistralai/mistral-small-24b-instruct-2501:free
Provider Name: Chutes
Generation Time: 19471 ms
Prompt Tokens: 7659
Completion Tokens: 365
Total Tokens: 8024
Total Cost: $0.00000000
Usage: 0
Latency: 3007 ms
Native Tokens Prompt: 8402
Native Tokens Completion: 375
Native Tokens Reasoning: 0
Native Tokens Total: 8777
Cache Discount: None
Temperature: 0.5
Top P: 1.0
Seed: None
Max Tokens: None
Compress: True
Compress Rate (Setting): 0.75
Original Tokens (LLMLingua-2): 7673
Compressed Tokens (LLMLingua-2): 5773
Compression Rate (LLMLingua-2): 1.3x
Saving (LLMLingua-2): 24.762%
LLMLingua-2 max_batch_size: 400
LLMLingua-2 max_force_token: 10000

real 1m11.327s
user 1m17.750s
sys 0m4.043s
Click to expand...
Yeah follow-up response, mixed AI suggestions with my posts heh
 
Last edited:
frm said:
You're ignoring the cost of creating a summary though.
Click to expand...
I addressed cost in the first post. I don't think it's an issue. Xenforo will not implement it tomorrow. If they do opt to implement it then it will take some time. Rates will go down drastically in time and there is plenty of LLM competition. It will probably have a similar trajectory as bandwidth, which has gone from extremely expensive to basically free.
And there also are open source LLMs that you can run yourself. That's probably out of scope for most people.

There is a separate suggestion for the implementation of a LLM API framework:
sdev

Thread 'Centralized AI API Framework for Enhanced Integration'

Feature Overview:
Introduce a centralized AI API framework in XenForo, enabling connections to multiple AI providers like OpenAI, Mistral, Groq, and Anthropic. Administrators can then easily configure and manage AI integrations directly through the admin panel (API keys...). And extensions can then use these with ease.

Key Capabilities:
  • Support for multiple AI providers with easy switching.
  • Tools for developers to integrate AI features, such as content moderation, automated replies, and personalized recommendations. Without having to ask for API keys.
...
  • Like
I think that a LLM API framework would probably be required to make suggestions like the current one possible.
 
This initiative is under development. This is exactly the kind of project I was looking for when I posted this:

Sal Collaziano

Thread 'I have an Artificial Intelligence Engineer looking for work...'

I'm not sure where to post this. Perhaps a moderator will move it to another spot.

But I have a young relative who is an artificial intelligence engineer who's looking to get involved in some sort of online project. He'd be available to create forum add-ons and I think XenForo would be a great place to start.

Is there some type of AI functionality that would/could be beneficial to XenForo administrators?
  • Like
 
I mean, I upvoted it. But, I just don't see it feasible for most until we come to a conclusion on which LLM to use for the best SEO (due to the costs of varying platforms as well as the knowledge they have). I think ChatGPT 4.5 is the best when it comes to SEO if you want to insert Google's top searched keywords and phrases in the context of the summary without keyword stuffing too much (pick 1 high, 2 medium, 3 low competition keywords/phrases to put in the summary without taking it out of context or sounding too robotic doing so). Otherwise, you're looking at a manual process of trying to jam in some keywords/phrases on your own in a prompt, which would have to vary thread by thread.

I don't know if @eva2000 's can be programmed to have Google's top searched keywords/phrases high/medium/low and rewrite paragraphs with keywords in context; if it can't, it's a nice summary, but might not be too helpful for SEO purposes. Perhaps, that could be his next mission... scrape all the keywords, competition, and bidding, so that they're a part of the model. :)
 
frm said:
I mean, I upvoted it. But, I just don't see it feasible for most until we come to a conclusion on which LLM to use for the best SEO (due to the costs of varying platforms as well as the knowledge they have). I think ChatGPT 4.5 is the best when it comes to SEO if you want to insert Google's top searched keywords and phrases in the context of the summary without keyword stuffing too much (pick 1 high, 2 medium, 3 low competition keywords/phrases to put in the summary without taking it out of context or sounding too robotic doing so). Otherwise, you're looking at a manual process of trying to jam in some keywords/phrases on your own in a prompt, which would have to vary thread by thread.

I don't know if @eva2000 's can be programmed to have Google's top searched keywords/phrases high/medium/low and rewrite paragraphs with keywords in context; if it can't, it's a nice summary, but might not be too helpful for SEO purposes. Perhaps, that could be his next mission... scrape all the keywords, competition, and bidding, so that they're a part of the model. :)
Click to expand...
OpenRouter (or Ollama, but most people do not have the resources to self-host a meaningful setup) are unified and give access to most (if not all) current AI models.
 
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