XenForo needs a blog with regular updates from Kier & Mike

[John]

Seriously, don't we all have better things to do than worry about things that don't matter in the grand scheme of things...I know I sure do.

 

[feldon30]

I will reiterate once again that XenForo needs a Community Manager. This is the position that talks frequently to Kier, Mike, Ashley, etc., provides them a weekly report of what's going on in the community, and makes posts in reference to what's going on. This would not preclude Kier and Mike from themselves posting, but would provide status reports in the between-times.

 

[John]

I will reiterate once again that XenForo needs a Community Manager. This is the position that talks frequently to Kier, Mike, Ashley, etc., provides them a weekly report of what's going on in the community, and makes posts in reference to what's going on. This would not preclude Kier and Mike from themselves posting, but would provide status reports in the between-times.

Someone, say, like IBAdrian? God forbid. (I said him because that's exactly who comes to mind when you use the term community manager)

 

[MGSteve]

As a commercial forum software (paid) the customers have the right to get proper information about the future of the product regardless any issues that the business is facing.

I'm sure this has been addressed on the 5 pages I haven't read yet, but your premise is wrong. When you buy a new car, say off Ford. It doesn't give you the right to know what Ford is working on and what's going to be announced or released in the future from Ford.

Same applies with XF. The main asset XF has at the moment is surprise, each release contains the surprise of what features have been added. OK - at the moment they're mainly playing catch-up to a degree with the established players, but any new and unique features certainly are surprises and fore knowledge of them by the competition damages XF as a company.

To a degree another benefit XF has is it's size, small and nimble development as there are only 2 developers working on it. It however is their major weakness because there are only 2 developers and only so many hours in the day.

Whilst on the one hand I, as a customer, would like to know what features they have planned for 1.1 - more so the standard features present in other forums that are needed in XF, it will and can only ever open up a can of worms. people will disagree with the priorities set by XF Ltd and will call for them to be changed. Others will then argue that they are correct to do it in the order they are.

In short, its a ants nest that no-one wants to kick over and for now, they are better off not having a roadmap and not making a stick for other people to hit them with if they don't / can't stick to it for one reason or another.

Like it or not, a roadmap isn't going to appear. A blog, whilst nice, is also a waste of their time at the moment, given their limited development resource.

Its all fair and well you saying 'Go and employ someone', but that would drain resources that at the moment, may be called on to defend the legal action. What's the point in employing someone else, taking time to train them up, paying them to then potientally run out of funds and have to cave in on the legal front.

I'm not saying it would happen, but its a possibility. Obviously I don't know the details, but speaking personally as a Company Director, paying yourself is one thing, you can get away with paying yourself whatever the company can afford - you can't do that with employees.

 

[MGSteve]

I will reiterate once again that XenForo needs a Community Manager. This is the position that talks frequently to Kier, Mike, Ashley, etc., provides them a weekly report of what's going on in the community, and makes posts in reference to what's going on. This would not preclude Kier and Mike from themselves posting, but would provide status reports in the between-times.

I still haven't read the 5 pages between the previous reply I made and this one - but this I do agree with - assuming XF need one.

It would have to be voluntary, but I'm sure there wouldn't be a shortage of people for XF to approach. The Community is getting large enough now that perhaps someone to sit between the forums and Kier / Mike to pass on any issues that need their attention and reply to posts about status or other topics - perhaps even make some of the 'Have you seen' movies...

Basically, to free up Kier's time.

... that is on the rather ill-informed assumption that Kier needs time freeing up. We assume he does, but he's the one who will know, its not for us to say this is what he needs to do. I appreciate that's pretty much what I've done here, but note my key word in the first sentence... 'assuming'...

 

[Forsaken]

Someone, say, like IBAdrian? God forbid. (I said him because that's exactly who comes to mind when you use the term community manager)

He means someone like Brogan who is already holding the roll for the most part, but it would probably be better to have a separate person to handle it.

It's clear here that what people want is not a roadmap (of course some people do but the majority don't), all they really want some sort of updates to tell us that Xenforo is still here, functioning and growing. To me the perfect solution would be to have either a new forum or a sub-forum in the Announcements forum with a weekly post, maybe highlighting a particularly good add-on or style, maybe showing a site that has done a particularly impressive thing with xenforo, maybe occasionally with some information on how the software is developing or how the lawsuit is taking it's toll. I understand there are only 3 people who actually take a salary from the company but I reckon a post a week between three of them wouldn't be too hard to do, especially if it's just highlighting an addon of the week or whatever.

If possible (but separate from the above) I think it'd be great if the information in Brogan's profile could also be put in a thread in the announcements forum, it'd make it a lot easier to find and as with Brogan's profile at the moment wouldn't promise anything and would just show the important posts from Kier & Mike.

All you have to do to see that 'XenForo is still here' is look at the bug forum. I've used every major forum software at least once (I have a lifetime license to WBB2, WBB3, IPB, though I sold all my vB's or gave them away), and this is the only development team I've seen fix as many things as quickly as they have.

A road map is nice in concept, but what will it really do? People who require this feature or that feature will pressure to get the feature added sooner, developers will still create replacements until the feature is released, and people will still complain. Having worked as a designer, and in a development team where we were required to have an internal roadmap I can honestly say I despise them as all they do is add unneeded pressure to the team.

Also, XenForo has been the best at communicating with customers when required. As much as IPB gives updates, and as much as they talk to customers, it isn't like they're all rainbows and sunshine. I've seen just as many developers and designers complain about IPB as they have about vBulletin and Woltlab (Woltlab lost much of their developer base between WBB2 and WBB3).

 

[ragtek]

as xenforo was introduced, it was wow and i thought "yea, finally a system for all my existing and new forums"
now after 6 months i'm really "disappointed" and not really sure if it's something for our communities.

it sucks to read all the time "yes it's planned" if somebody asks for features or some modifications for xenforo.com (for example the add-ons & styles board)
it also sucks to read all the time from the fanboys "kier and mike can't do it ATM, they are only 2 developers which have to spend there time with the lawsuite AND the development..." => as a customer i don't care of this......
8 pages and no real useful official postings here..

i bought it because i thought that xenforo is great and not because i wanted to support k&m as many other users here

many basic features are missing, nobody knows when(if) they want be available, nobody from the add-on coders want to code them and without an roadmap (as i said already 100 times, i think the most of the users would be happy with an small roadmap for the next 1-2 releases,..
ok i got non answers on this=> nobody cares, ok i have to live with this.
because i can't live with this, i have to leaf this place.

the add-on system is really nice(it's not the most modern system but it's great and powerful) but when nobody knows how to use it, it's worth nothing..
Without an "real" developer documentation it's hard to code "great" add-ons (because you need to read the code, etc... if you don't want to code quick and dirty) what is really time consuming(=expensive), and posting the questions in the dev. questions board doesn't solve many problems (just check the dev. board, many threads have 0 answers.. )
also IMHO there are max. 3 GREAT and reliable (hope that's the right word) add-on coders which i trust and where i invest my money for custom add-ons.. (i've spent already > 300$on donations for some of the coders here, because they helped my with coding)
IMHO without shamil or xfrocks many great addons wouldn't even exist...

I wish you all the best for the feature, maybe you'll get me in some years back as customer, once things run, as they should...

(yes i know, many fanboys(and girls) will hate me now, but who cares,...)

 

[Nick]

Someone, say, like IBAdrian? ....

No. Somebody who knows what they're doing (i.e., not a figure-head/puppet).

 

[Luke F]

the add-on system is really nice(it's not the most modern system but it's great and powerful) but when nobody knows how to use it, it's worth nothing..
Without an "real" developer documentation it's hard to code "great" add-ons (because you need to read the code, etc... if you don't want to code quick and dirty) what is really time consuming(=expensive), and posting the questions in the dev. questions board doesn't solve many problems (just check the dev. board, many threads have 0 answers.. )

It is entirely possible to code quick and dirty in XenForo. My first addon (which never saw a public release) consisted of code from vBulletin dropped into an event listener, surrounded in ob_start/ob_get_clean and then rendered via xen:raw. I didn't have a clue what I was doing, but it was certainly easier to get started than vBulletin.

 

[Jose Amaral Mota]

So... those other forum scripts you have did not fulfill your community needs? I left vB because it was turning into an advert hoar (boonex) and lost confidents when I heard they outsource to code vB4, but that failed completely.

Lets go back to you.... You own other payed scripts and complain about how Xenforo not having all the features you need....

Your right about 'Dev Q' forum and do hope to see more coders help other each other. I was hoping to see more activity within that forum, as vB.org similar forum has this problem.

It is entirely possible to code quick and dirty in XenForo. My first addon consisted of code from vBulletin dropped into an event listener, surrounded in ob_start/ob_get_flush and then rendered via xen:raw. I didn't have a clue what I was doing, but it was certainly easier to get started than vBulletin.

Just like going to a Mexican mechanic... Swap a Toyota part into a Ford car. [ingenuity]

 

[iTuN3r]

as xenforo was introduced, it was wow and i thought "yea, finally a system for all my existing and new forums"
now after 6 months i'm really "disappointed" and not really sure if it's something for our communities.

it sucks to read all the time "yes it's planned" if somebody asks for features or some modifications for xenforo.com (for example the add-ons & styles board)
it also sucks to read all the time from the fanboys "kier and mike can't do it ATM, they are only 2 developers which have to spend there time with the lawsuite AND the development..." => as a customer i don't care of this......
8 pages and no real useful official postings here..

i bought it because i thought that xenforo is great and not because i wanted to support k&m as many other users here

many basic features are missing, nobody knows when(if) they want be available, nobody from the add-on coders want to code them and without an roadmap (as i said already 100 times, i think the most of the users would be happy with an small roadmap for the next 1-2 releases,..
ok i got non answers on this=> nobody cares, ok i have to live with this.
because i can't live with this, i have to leaf this place.

the add-on system is really nice(it's not the most modern system but it's great and powerful) but when nobody knows how to use it, it's worth nothing..
Without an "real" developer documentation it's hard to code "great" add-ons (because you need to read the code, etc... if you don't want to code quick and dirty) what is really time consuming(=expensive), and posting the questions in the dev. questions board doesn't solve many problems (just check the dev. board, many threads have 0 answers.. )
also IMHO there are max. 3 GREAT and reliable (hope that's the right word) add-on coders which i trust and where i invest my money for custom add-ons.. (i've spent already > 300$on donations for some of the coders here, because they helped my with coding)
IMHO without shamil or xfrocks many great addons wouldn't even exist...

I wish you all the best for the feature, maybe you'll get me in some years back as customer, once things run, as they should...

(yes i know, many fanboys(and girls) will hate me now, but who cares,...)

Well said

 

[borbole]

(yes i know, many fanboys(and girls) will hate me now, but who cares,...)

There is no reason at all why any sensible person should hate you for expressing your sincere opinion/thought/views on something. They were done in a very constructive matured way.

That said, I agree partialy with you when you say that as a customer you don''t care about what is going on and you are on your right to move on. However, while I am not a fanboy, far from it, I think that the current situation that xenforo is going on requires a little more understanding and support from its customers. The developers have a lot on their plate and still they have performed extremly well. And I am sure that with the pass of time we will see much more new improvements. So for one, I am willing to be a little patience and give them that time. I am sure that the customers patience and understanding will be rewarded in the long run, Just my 2$.

it also sucks to read all the time from the fanboys "kier and mike can't do it ATM, they are only 2 developers which
have to spend there time with the lawsuite AND the development..." => as a customer i don't care of this......

 

[ragtek]

So... those other forum scripts you have did not fulfill your community needs

exactly
vB3 is/was great and most of my forums are using it.
Since some moths i'm searching for an alternative, to convert all my boards(to have a minimal administration & add-on development time)
vB4 => was/is a catastrophe.. i hoped & tried the best(just check how many bugs & fixes i reported) but some months ago i gave it completly up.
mybb=> great, but the development speed is too slow, so it's ATM nothing for all my boards
ipb3 => ipb3 is great and some of our forums are running on it, but i never liked it, i never got a passion for it, like with vB & xenforo

 

[Paul M]

Someone, say, like IBAdrian? God forbid. (I said him because that's exactly who comes to mind when you use the term community manager)

What do you have against Adrian ? (who btw is not a Community Manager).

 

[Peggy]

as xenforo was introduced, it was wow and i thought "yea, finally a system for all my existing and new forums"
now after 6 months i'm really "disappointed" and not really sure if it's something for our communities.

it sucks to read all the time "yes it's planned" if somebody asks for features or some modifications for xenforo.com (for example the add-ons & styles board)
it also sucks to read all the time from the fanboys "kier and mike can't do it ATM, they are only 2 developers which have to spend there time with the lawsuite AND the development..." => as a customer i don't care of this......
8 pages and no real useful official postings here..

i bought it because i thought that xenforo is great and not because i wanted to support k&m as many other users here

many basic features are missing, nobody knows when(if) they want be available, nobody from the add-on coders want to code them and without an roadmap (as i said already 100 times, i think the most of the users would be happy with an small roadmap for the next 1-2 releases,..
ok i got non answers on this=> nobody cares, ok i have to live with this.
because i can't live with this, i have to leaf this place.

the add-on system is really nice(it's not the most modern system but it's great and powerful) but when nobody knows how to use it, it's worth nothing..
Without an "real" developer documentation it's hard to code "great" add-ons (because you need to read the code, etc... if you don't want to code quick and dirty) what is really time consuming(=expensive), and posting the questions in the dev. questions board doesn't solve many problems (just check the dev. board, many threads have 0 answers.. )
also IMHO there are max. 3 GREAT and reliable (hope that's the right word) add-on coders which i trust and where i invest my money for custom add-ons.. (i've spent already > 300$on donations for some of the coders here, because they helped my with coding)
IMHO without shamil or xfrocks many great addons wouldn't even exist...

I wish you all the best for the feature, maybe you'll get me in some years back as customer, once things run, as they should...

(yes i know, many fanboys(and girls) will hate me now, but who cares,...)

This post make me very sad. The software is only 6 months old and you're already jumping ship? And why?

1 - Many basic features are missing.

What constitutes a "basic feature" to you? I'm not jumping on you, I'd really like to know what you consider a "basic feature"?

2 - "it sucks to read all the time "yes it's planned" if somebody asks for features or some modifications for xenforo.com (for example the add-ons & styles board)".

Well, if it's not in the software yet, but it is planned for a future release, what else would you want to read? This is only the first stable release. Do you know how long it took vB or IPB or whatever other software out there, to get all the features they have? YEARS. If you expected everything you need for your community to be included in the first stable release, then yeah, your expectations were unrealistic, I'm sorry.

3 - "it also sucks to read all the time from the fanboys "kier and mike can't do it ATM, they are only 2 developers which have to spend there time with the lawsuite AND the development..."

You don't read this "all the time". You've only read it here in this thread, as far as I know. At least I haven't seen this in any other thread. Sorry if I'm wrong about that.

4 - 8 pages and no real useful official postings here.

Really the only useful official post here would be from either Kier, Mike or Ashley. Since it is the weekend and most of this thread has, indeed, been posted over the weekend, and none of them has posted, I'm assuming that they are spending some quality time with their families. More power to 'em, since they work their asses off during the week. (did I say a curse word? I hardly ever do that, sorry).

5 - posting the questions in the dev. questions board doesn't solve many problems (just check the dev. board, many threads have 0 answers.. )

You are right, something needs to be done there. There's no point in having that forum for development help if no one is going to answer the questions.

6 - (yes i know, many fanboys(and girls) will hate me now, but who cares,...)

Well hells bells, that "fanboy" thing keeps coming up. Is there no defending something or someone without being labeled a fanboy/girl? Guess not so, count me in, I IS A FANGIRL OF XenForo!

Having settled that, this fangirl does not hate you. Your post was well thought-out and your concerns are valid. I just don't understand your logic, nor agree with some of your reasoning. Perhaps your expectations were too high for a brand new product? I don't know, only you can answer that one.

It really has been great having you here tho!

 

[jadmperry]

...because i can't live with this, i have to leaf this place.

I wish you all the best for the feature, maybe you'll get me in some years back as customer, once things run, as they should...

(yes i know, many fanboys(and girls) will hate me now, but who cares,...)

That's too bad, ragtek...hate to see you go, I tend to think that having folks like you around who have a lot of experience helps to move things along and make improvements come faster. That is because you can offer good suggestions/fixes and have more insight on how to make things better. But, you have to do what makes sense for you.

Hope you come back sooner rather than later.

 

[akia]

I'm sure this has been addressed on the 5 pages I haven't read yet, but your premise is wrong. When you buy a new car, say off Ford. It doesn't give you the right to know what Ford is working on and what's going to be announced or released in the future from Ford.

Big difference is that when you buy a new car you buy it as is, you get the finished product and ford are not going to send you new bits of the car that have been updated. Their future plans don't have any effect on what you've bought.

If you bought a car on the premise that when they brought out a new model your car would be updated as well then I think that you'd want to know what's planned or being worked on as it has a material effect on you.

 

[steven s]

Big difference is that when you buy a new car you buy it as is, you get the finished product and ford are not going to send you new bits of the car that have been updated.
Their future plans don't have any effect on what you've bought.

Although there are some who are holding off buying a license until they know what features are coming.
So it depends how you look at the new car analogy.

 

[Wildcat Media]

Wow, did I step into some hornet's nest or what??

All I can say is (in my best ex-moderator's tone of voice): lighten up, everyone. Our XF team is doing what they can. A topic like this is nothing to get bent out of shape over. Or as a former co-worker of mine once said, "Did anybody die?" (Think about it.)

Now for my two cents worth (and you know how much that will buy you these days): I agree there should be a centralized place for a "what's happening with XF" page. Whether it's a blog, or a regularly updated forum area, it's all the same. And it should be prominently linked throughout the site.

Think of it as a sales tool: true, some of us know to check Brogan's links, subscribe to a Twitter feed or two, or hit several forum areas, but a lot of readers are going to be non-customers or, in better terms, potential customers. They will not know where to find this information, nor do they have time to browse the forum for hours trying to find the information.

Just post something, anything, to keep everyone in the loop, post it all in one place, and make sure it is linked prominently as "blog" or "news" or whatever you want to call it. Think of yourself as a typical web surfer: when checking out a company, organization, software developer or anything else you're unfamiliar with, what do you usually look at first? In my case, I hit the home page, I'll click on an About link, and I will click on any blog/news link I find just to see how active the company is, and see where they are headed. A dead blog/news page tells me they may be letting their products or services sit idle. Lack of a blog or news page isn't a deal killer, but it also leaves me wondering and less unsure of the people behind that home page.

It may not be necessary right now, and certainly Kier, Mike and Ashley don't have time to do it much, but like was mentioned earlier, there are probably ample level-headed volunteers who would be more than happy to do it. (I would suggest at the minimum, though, signing a non-disclosure agreement.) It does not even need to be all technical: post a milestone ("sold 100,000 XF licenses this month"), a holiday greeting, even something light-hearted or off-topic, just to give it a little bit of humanity.

Personally, I may not use a news page much here on the XF site, but as a customer looking to make sure I get maximum value for the dollar and a quality product, seeing an active news area on any site just makes good business sense to me. At some point down the road, I could see XF doing so. Currently? Probably not. Let's give it some time! The team has a lot more pressing issues to deal with right now.

 

[Peggy]

Wow, did I step into some hornet's nest or what??

ppfffftttt... ya love it and ya know it.