California Case Update

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Morgain said:
Can we PLEASE have this thread moderated.
It's fine to express concern in a thoughtful way as cclaerhout did above. There is some uncretaintly on XF future because the developers have not made a solid statement to reassure us they will continue after the case.
(I think either both Kier and Mike will continue, or one will buy the other out.)

But idiotic statements like "The developers have abandoned XF" are not based on solid evidence. Some might FEEL insecure but that's not the same thing as actual information. So throwing out drama statements like that without any solid evidence is destructive drama.
It strikes a pose which I suppose is satisfying to a certain type of person, but does nothing helpful for others. The cause for concern about XF is obvious. But it's not "doomed" and playing around with people's anxiety as a personal ego boost is simply cruel.
Nor do the developers deserve it nor do the moderators. Better announcements would be welcome but fighting the case comes first. I imagine it's impossibly hard for the guys to even imagine having a future right now. You get stuck in tunnel vision so only the struggle in the present exists.
Maybe they don't want to make a public commitment they don't feel absolutely sure right now they could keep because the future for them is unreal. I know what that's like. From my own experience I know that once you do get through you CAN carry on with the project which has become a weary burden. It starts to look different.

But\meanwhile please let's have a firmer hand. Instead of locking the thread AFTER it becomes offensive, moderate it BEFORE that happens.
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I think your term of "idiotic" you use when addressing this forum is a perfect example of a discussion going wrong and I believe to be inappropriate. I however agree with you in that this thread should contain posts that address the topic and not the complaints of the Devs inactivity, however I believe the frustration from customers who are not able to post valid concerns in an appropriate place like "off topic" without it being deleted, edited or locked forces their hand in posting here because they want to feel heard, and that most likely will not be satisfied until that response comes from the dev's or Ashley who is suppose to be their "Business Guy"
 
abnvet said:
I think your term of "idiotic" you use when addressing this forum is a perfect example of a discussion going wrong and I believe to be inappropriate. I however agree with you in that this thread should contain posts that address the topic and not the complaints of the Devs inactivity, however I believe the frustration from customers who are not able to post valid concerns in an appropriate place like "off topic" without it being deleted, edited or locked forces their hand in posting here because they want to feel heard, and that most likely will not be satisfied until that response comes from the dev's or Ashley who is suppose to be their "Business Guy"
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I respectfully disagree to some extent. Some of these people fall in the category of simply "impossible to please". Even if Ashley makes a brief appearance, AND makes a proper response, they will not be satisfied.
 
PACER Updates for: 11/13/2012

Docket Text #142 said:
MEMORANDUM of CONTENTIONS of FACT and LAW filed by defendants Kier Darby, Michael Sullivan, Xenforo Limited. (Deitchle, Pamela)
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Docket Text #143 said:
Witness List filed by defendants Kier Darby, Michael Sullivan, Xenforo Limited.. (Deitchle, Pamela)
Click to expand...
Docket Text #144 said:
Witness List filed by Plaintiff vBulletin Solutions, Inc... (Fraioli, Patrick)
Click to expand...
Docket Text #145 said:
Joint Trial Exhibit List filed by Plaintiff vBulletin Solutions, Inc... (Fraioli, Patrick)
Click to expand...
Docket Text #146 said:
MEMORANDUM of CONTENTIONS of FACT and LAW filed by Plaintiff vBulletin Solutions, Inc.. (Fraioli, Patrick)
Click to expand...

Documents in this pack:

#142 - Memorandum of Contentions of Fact and Law (17 Pages) [XENFORO]
#143 - Defendants' Trial Witness List (4 Pages)
#144 - Plaintiffs Trial Witness List (5 Pages)
#145 - Joint Trial Exhibit List (10 Pages)
#146 - Memorandum of Contentions of Fact and Law (13 Pages) [VBSI]

[Requested to be merged.]
 

Attachments

Claim 1 — Copyright Infringement:
The evidence will show that Plaintiff was the valid owner of copyrights for
the code for its vBulletin software, including Registrations TX 7-229-706, TX 7-
229=713, TX 7-229-720, TX 7-229-723, and TX 7-229-677. The evidence will
show that Defendants' XenForo software contains the same syntax, architecture,
sequence, structure, style, and organization of the protectable elements of Plaintiff's
copyrights code such that Defendants have committed non-literal infringement.
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Anyone know what TX 7-229-706, TX 7-229=713, TX 7-229-720, TX 7-229-723, and TX 7-229-677 are about ?
 
Looks like formalities at this stage in the case. The latest documents state the claims against XF, the defenses against those claims, the exhibit list and the witness list.

There is still some pending legal maneuvering by IB that is reiterated in these latest documents. The defaults against Mike, Kier, and XF are still pending and will be decided on Nov 26. And IB's request for additional discovery and the addition of Matt Mecham are still pending (also Nov 26).
 
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Any idea who Bruce Abramson or Frederic Rethans are? I can't imagine where IB found an expert witness who'll say anything positive for them in regards to code similarity.
 
Oh... from here:

#42-7 - Bruce Abramson (4/2011) - And it's the same guy I linked above.

Could Frederic Rethans be the same as Derick Rethans?

Edit 2:

It appears it is Derick Rethans.

#70-1 - Refer to #7 (9/2011)
 
ManagerJosh said:
I respectfully disagree to some extent. Some of these people fall in the category of simply "impossible to please". Even if Ashley makes a brief appearance, AND makes a proper response, they will not be satisfied.
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You'll just have to deal with it that the fact remains that people are concerned. People that have spent time making xenforo better. When you've put in the amount of time some contributors have then you may be able to judge, you haven't, the same groups reaps the benefits of the contributors contributions here.

Since your post was left to stand I expect this to since the same group constantly having a dig at the people that tried to voice their concerns and keep bring it up in this thread.
 
ENF said:
PACER Updates for: 11/13/2012
Documents in this pack:

#142 - Memorandum of Contentions of Fact and Law (17 Pages) [XENFORO]
#143 - Defendants' Trial Witness List (4 Pages)
#144 - Plaintiffs Trial Witness List (5 Pages)
#145 - Joint Trial Exhibit List (10 Pages)
#146 - Memorandum of Contentions of Fact and Law (13 Pages) [VBSI]

[Requested to be merged.]
Click to expand...

Having read all that, you can say 2 things for sure:

1) The trial will get VERY expensive.
2) There will be almost certainly no 100% winner, if the jury needs to decide based on all that stuff.

Personal conclusion:
Xenforo is in the worser position, because there is nothing to win, even if parts of the claims will get rejected. Their daily business will be (is already?) harmed irreparable, their expenses cannot be recovered fully.
vB is in the better position, because even if they'll loose the whole suit, they'll loose nothing regarding their daily business.
 
HWS said:
Having read all that, you can say 2 things for sure:

1) The trial will get VERY expensive.
2) There will be almost certainly no 100% winner, if the jury needs to decide based on all that stuff.

Personal conclusion:
Xenforo is in the worser position, because there is nothing to win, even if parts of the claims will get rejected. Their daily business will be (is already?) harmed irreparable, their expenses cannot be recovered fully.
vB is in the better position, because even if they'll loose the whole suit, they'll loose nothing regarding their daily business.
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Which was the goal from the start.

vBulletin / Internet Brands has been in this from the start not to exactly win the case, but rather to hurt the financial gain of XenForo through legal cost and discouragement of customer purchases while a pending case is against it. I'm sure it would be seen as a plus / bonus if they could win, but the overall goal for Internet Brands (vBulletin) was achieved the moment they filed suite.
 
Adam Howard said:
Which was the goal from the start.

vBulletin / Internet Brands has been in this from the start not to exactly win the case, but rather to hurt the financial gain of XenForo through legal cost and discouragement of customer purchases while a pending case is against it. I'm sure it would be seen as a plus / bonus if they could win, but the overall goal for Internet Brands (vBulletin) was achieved the moment they filed suite.
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I hate to say this, but the harm of the daily business, which can make it impossible to cover costs for the law suit now, was caused mainly by internal reasons within the people at Xenforo.

The best strategy would have been to create and follow a good business plan, take investors to cover the costs of development and company growing, hire developers and business experts and continue trustworthy to develop that software and it's community. There would have been be a stable and strong source of income, a fast growing company and community with the best product in its market.

I that case Xenforo could have supported vBs plans to prolongate the law suite, it would have run beside the daily business for years until at some point vB would have seen no sense in continuing it and would have agreed to some kind of settlement.

But now....
(I am sorry to say it, but I personally expect Xenforo closing it's doors permanently before the trial even starts)
 
HWS said:
Having read all that, you can say 2 things for sure:

1) The trial will get VERY expensive.
2) There will be almost certainly no 100% winner, if the jury needs to decide based on all that stuff.

Personal conclusion:
Xenforo is in the worser position, because there is nothing to win, even if parts of the claims will get rejected. Their daily business will be (is already?) harmed irreparable, their expenses cannot be recovered fully.
vB is in the better position, because even if they'll loose the whole suit, they'll loose nothing regarding their daily business.
Click to expand...
If XF development will continue, I have 6 customers that will buy a XF licence. They just don´t buy it because they and I, don´t know the future of XF regarding development.
 
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