California Case Update

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wickedstangs said:
All forums are losing no matter how you look at it.. :)
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No offence, but if you knew anything about forums, you'd know thats a load of rubbish ;) As James said, non-topic specific forums, sure but given that 99% of forums are specific to a niche area, they are not at all affected. Very few people actually bother going on facebook to communicate with anyone who's not already a friend, and even fewer make a habit of joining groups and making a regular contribution.
 
LP-John said:
vB5 has nothing to do with this court case, but either way it's not a win for XenForo unless they have the ability to capitalize on the upset community. In this case I believe IPB is the real winner. No matter how I look at the forum software industry, all signs point to an IPB win. Essentially you have an upset vB customer base who isn't in love with vB5. While there will be users who stick by the product, there will also be quite a few who are upset with it. Right now XenForo is not an alternative for them because XenForo is not in a good place. The only other viable option for someone looking to start a community is IPB. If I didn't have the experience I had with XF since the first public beta release I would not have purchased this software. People love stability and that's not what is happening here.

If anything, this case does nothing for IB except remove potential competition. I believe this court case made IB weaker from a consumer perspective. Anyone who is a XenForo fan will more than likely not invest in vBulletin if XenForo ends up losing this case. I would be more inclined to purchase IPB if anything. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. So all in all this case does nothing but weaken the forum market as a whole and give a distinct advantage to Invision Power.

It's almost kind of sad really. Competition drives innovation and without it, we the consumer, lose.
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That is prity much how it's played out. XF divided community will ultimately be it's downfall. IPB have def capitalized on it and can you be surprised? many people that tried to air their concern were sent away or told to move basically leave and that is exactly what they did. A few 3rd party developers and many more have stopped developing or moved away after being met with verbal abuse that still goes on to this day. It always amazes me how a company can build up a reputation and then at a drop of the hat it's the laughing stock.

The courtcase should have made this community (what's left of it) stronger, it had the opposite affect. Maybe it can be repaired, i hope it can but I can't see that happening. XF could have handled this a whole lot differently from the start, but hey it is what it is.

You can bet a large proportion of people will be bailing out of forums altogether if XF loses, development doesn't continue if they did win but like you said, even if it goes XF way they haven't gained alot but lost what was once a strong memberbase which is fragmented/divided today.

IB - destroys
XF - creates
IPB - reaps the benefits of it all and gains customers both from IB and XF (they just never stopped communicating) that's their strong point and served them well.
 
You think things are crazy or negative here, so much that XenForo is worse?

Oh God.... There is good enough reason why more than 1/2 of IPB forum is private and you can not view it unless you are a customer. And it is not just to prevent piracy or add a layer of customer privacy either (as they will claim).

If you love drama, trolls, and staff trolls... IPB is right for you. Think a professional looking 4Chan.com type of enviroment

You all flipped out that 1x Jake said he didn't care about something. Oh I've got news for you... IPB has said and done much worse.

They have a good "PR campaign". I will give them that much credit. Oh from the outside the grass looks very green and friendly. Get inside and Freddy Krueger (movie, nightmare on elm street) is manning the door.

IPB has a good Public Relations Department in that they can "spin" anything. I'd love to higher their PR Department. Hell... Mitt Romney could have done better (leading in the polls) if he had hired IPB's PR Department.
 
Adam Howard said:
You think things are crazy or negative here, so much that XenForo is worse?

Oh God.... There is good enough reason why more than 1/2 of IPB forum is private and you can not view it unless you are a customer. And it is not just to prevent piracy or add a layer of customer privacy either (as they will claim).

If you love drama, trolls, and staff trolls... IPB is right for you. Think a professional looking 4Chan.com type of enviroment

You all flipped out that 1x Jake said he didn't care about something. Oh I've got news for you... IPB has said and done much worse.

They have a good "PR campaign". I will give them that much credit. Oh from the outside the grass looks very green and friendly. Get inside and Freddy Krueger (movie, nightmare on elm street) is manning the door.

IPB has a good Public Relations Department in that they can "spin" anything. I'd love to higher their PR Department. Hell... Mitt Romney could have done better (leading in the polls) if he had hired IPB's PR Department.
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It was extremely hard for me to follow your post. This isn't to promote IPB as a great product, it's simply thinking about who wins and who loses from this situation. I don't understand what you're talking about and your references/metaphors are quite disturbing.

I will say this. I rather have someone there at the door period, than no one at all.
 
LP-John said:
It was extremely hard for me to follow your post. This isn't to promote IPB as a great product, it's simply thinking about who wins and who loses from this situation. I don't understand what you're talking about and your references/metaphors are quite disturbing.

I will say this. I rather have someone there at the door period, than no one at all.
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what was hard to follow about it?

English - check
grammar - check
spelling - check
sentence structure - check

I fail to understand why you could not understand my message.
 
Shelley said:
XF divided community will ultimately be it's downfall.
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I don't think the XF community is really divided. Everyone likes the software a lot. Community is very supportive of problem solving. Everyone is concerned about the hiatus in direct communications, support and development of XenForo team. Everyone supports XF in its lawsuit with IPB. The disagreements are over mostly irrelevant topics, our opinions on future of XF which pretty much boils down to Kier keeps it going or not. As for the developers, they go where the market goes and where their own personal software choices take them.

Shelley said:
The courtcase should have made this community (what's left of it) stronger, it had the opposite affect..
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I think the lawsuit is a point of agreement for the XF community. I don't think you see any disagreement on the lawsuit. No one in the community thinks it is legitimate. Everyone supports XF on the issue. The "opposite effect", the arguing is not really about the lawsuit (other than a couple online lawyers arguing over the legal chicken guts laid out for reading of portents) but about XF's internal problems which may be unrelated to the lawsuit.

It would be nice to keep that arguing off the "CA Case Update" thread. It's funny how in our forums we grouse about users and thread drift, not starting new threads with new topics, using the XF forum user tools etc. yet here we are experienced forum administrators doing the same thing.

On the CA case. No news. Trial still scheduled to begin November 6th. Will Kier shows up to defend himself is the real question at this point. Just showing up for the case in LA will cost $10K in travel and lodging expenses. If the vaguely referenced "personal problems" and lack of financial capability result in a no show, IPB will win by default.
 
BGL said:
On the CA case. No news. Trial still scheduled to begin November 6th. Will Kier shows up to defend himself is the real question at this point. Just showing up for the case in LA will cost $10K in travel and lodging expenses. If the vaguely referenced "personal problems" and lack of financial capability result in a no show, IPB will win by default.
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No, this is wrong. Kier has already said he won't be travelling to the hearing (earlier in this thread). His lawyers will appear and argue the motions.
 
Shelley said:
XF could have handled this a whole lot differently from the start
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How so?

When you take into account that if KAM say ANYTHING here (regardless of how mundane it may be), it can be used against them, its just not worth the risk. The most they could have done is kept saying "we'll provide updates when we can", knowing that they cant until the case is sorted out. Even if they were to write "we're still working on XenForo behind the scenes" this could be used against them.

They arent stupid, they are playing the safe game. Has the lack of communication caused problems with the community? Most certainly. However short of shutting the community until the court case was over, this was the only option.

As far as we're aware, their legal council may have told them not to communicate with people publicly - this sort of thing is not uncommon, and makes perfect sense if you want any chance of winning your case.

Lets also not forget that money is likely VERY tight with every penny going on legal fees, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if KAM were each having to work on other things on the side to afford to live.

As it stands it's still a case of wait and see. People who arent happy waiting will obviously go elsewhere, and I dont blame them, however the decision to do so shouldn't be because of the speculation that's been spread by a select few members, all of which so far has been complete crap.

I'm rambling so I'll shut up now, but hopefully you see what I'm on about :)
 
Actually, the community had many issues long before the lawsuit and that division was only made more visible by the lawsuit.
 
Lee said:
I think this thread needs putting to bed now. Closing time in my opinion!
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that.ship.has.sailed.webp
 
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