vb5 beta released, and...

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Mincing details.

And the devil is in the details. Comparing a classic garage start up like XenForo to a multimillion dollar revenue, established business like Jelsoft is meaningless.

IB bought Jelsoft because they were paying Jelsoft money for Jelsoft's product which was key to their forum business. Made total sense to purchase the company, control the software at the basis of IB's business and save those millions of dollars previously paid to Jelsoft.

Jelsoft was a small company, and IB must've waved a big wad of money before the eyes of its current owners and promised perfect freedom for creativity and 'letting things be as they were'.

Baseless and wildly romanticized speculation. More likely current owners wanted out of a forum software business that overall is in decline so they sold. IB was buying for reasons stated above, known reasons.

So the merger was completed, and before the ink was dry on the paper, IB was announcing the intentions to outsource VB development to India

Those pesky details again, China per the depositions.

This is the very definition of a company taking over, using money as power, and destroying infant creativity with brutish short-sightedness.

Your scenario and your "definition" have no basis in fact...you've spun your own story, redefined an established million dollar company into a Jobs and Wosniak in the basement fiction.

Seems clear IB simply wanted to bring millions of spent dollars inside so they bought Jelsoft from willing owner. IB didn't particularly care about Jelsoft's sales after that and wanted to reduce Jelsoft costs. IB's forums have to use vBulletin no matter the problems with it so IB's goals are met, millions saved, they control the software that runs their main business.

As for the suit against XenForo, sounds personal, which happens in business more than people imagine...look at the decisions of Jobs, Gates, Ellison...many decisions based on their egos vs. "just business". XenForo is no threat to IB core business and vBulletin sales and forum software sales overall are a declining business. Suing XenForo makes no business sense for IB.
 
I've got an idea how vB works. Their idea of better performance at 60 SQL requests is akin to their belief that 400 bugs during a gold release (Okay I admit I just pulled that number out of thin air, it's been 2 years, give me a break) is so much better than 900 bugs.

Actually the 60 queries for Beta 14 were on forum home with almost no other modules on the page. On a live site that number would dramatically increase.
 
I do wonder though: vB5 is incomplete in terms of features that are currently in vB4 and are planned to be added later, yes? If vB5 is pulling 60+ queries now, what will happen when 5.1 and later are released? o_O
 
I don't. How does it worry you ?
Me neither. We're discussing vBulletin's little failures, and big failures.

And enjoying doing this....

408_0179.preview.jpg


As the collective.... :D
 
I do wonder though: vB5 is incomplete in terms of features that are currently in vB4 and are planned to be added later, yes? If vB5 is pulling 60+ queries now, what will happen when 5.1 and later are released? o_O

Actually I expect the number to reduce over time as they are currently focused on performance improvement. For instance the templates would be saved on file system in one of the planned improvements reducing the queries to read them from the DB.

Given the amount of investment which has gone into VB5, I expect they will solve the "obvious bugs" over time. Performance, page jumping around, editor quirks e tc. That should work for non tech savvy users but tech admins who understand the underlying design flaws may never touch VB5.
 
I've seen it stated as low as 6-7.
Me too with the cache enabled :)
Given the amount of investment which has gone into VB5, I expect they will solve the "obvious bugs" over time. Performance, page jumping around, editor quirks e tc. That should work for non tech savvy users but tech admins who understand the underlying design flaws may never touch VB5.
When users will realize they have to pay a server twice as expensive to have their vB5 forums working correctly...
vB Roadmap:
- Development time: 1 years and half.
- Bug fixing time: 2 years.
- Time to publish the next release ...
Good luck ! :D
 
Their notices System is just a pain in the a****
Just press on "see more" at Announcing vBulletin 5 Notice. I must laugh and for that peace of crap they want that much money :whistle:
The List of Bugfixes with every new "fixed" release is unbelievable long.

btw, vb5 looks ugly like hell
 
I see no problem discussing another product here and for those who somehow find it distasteful or inappropriate, there's plenty of other threads you can read/reply to instead.
No one is being forced to take part in this thread.
I for one enjoy reading the feedback, it's a nice change from reading the blatant fanbois'ism and ass kissing from the likes of soniceffect and Mark.B on VB.com. :P
 
Vb5 doesn't look bad IMO. To be quite honest I'm losing trust in Xenforo pretty fast. It'll take years to solve this court case, and nothing will be updated until then. In addition many coders and themers have left so even plugin creation is slow. I really like Xen, and this community (im not leaving either way so tough lol) but VB5 might be calling us....at least until KAM figures this out and gets their acts together.
 
Vb5 doesn't look bad IMO.
Ask any decent coder how the code looks. ;)

To be quite honest I'm losing trust in Xenforo pretty fast. It'll take years to solve this court case, and nothing will be updated until then. In addition many coders and themers have left so even plugin creation is slow. I really like Xen, and this community (im not leaving either way so tough lol) but VB5 might be calling us....at least until KAM figures this out and gets their acts together.
Understandable. Although there is no indication that it will take that long. Probably wouldn't even be possible since I think XF would run out of money sooner than that.
 
What do you like about it?

It looks nice and it functions...nothing special there. However Xen's lawsuit concerns me even though IB are the ass hats doing it. All version production is halted, or at least hidden, and wont be released until this case is over which could potentially take YEARS. That's assuming KAM keeps up the good fight which I think they will but everyone these days has their financial difficulties. Another concern I have is that the community is slowing down. Add ons come out very slowly....and it's not because we don't have great coders who volunteer, or a lot of originality...it's because no one is really putting a lot of effort into coding for a system they don't know will exist in the future. A lot of the coders have said it themselves, and more still have left.

Another more personal reason is that VB is the standard on the political web. We have a lot of older type users. They don't like change. Quite frankly, and some have literally told me this, Xenforo scares them. It's not what they're used to and that's why they run to the other sites - many of which do not mod as well as us. So they'll take the hit and run to a site with a bad reputation because they don't want to get used to our software. That's not a slight against Xen, it's a slight against old fuddy duddies on the web who want to use technology but refuse to keep up with it :-/

So we're starting to figure things out. We're testing, we're trying, and we're looking. I just wanted to say this bit because I think many others have the same concerns but have not publically said them.
 
until this case is over which could potentially take YEARS.
Hmm, not quite.

It has taken a couple of years already up to this point. On November 5th there is a hearing to decide whether the case should be dismissed. If it isn't dismissed and it goes ahead then in January 2013 a trial date is set.

In theory it could all be over in a few months.
 
Hmm, not quite.

It has taken a couple of years already up to this point. On November 5th there is a hearing to decide whether the case should be dismissed. If it isn't dismissed and it goes ahead then in January 2013 a trial date is set.

In theory it could all be over in a few months.

Isn't there two cases, one US and one UK. If the US one is dismissed the UK one will come into play and the UK system functions entirely differently. Or am I wrong?
 
There is a UK case, and yes the legal system is different. But I can't see a UK court wasting the time, money and effort that the American courts have on this case. I also can't see a UK case being entertained for very long if the US case results in a win for XenForo.
 
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