vb5 beta released, and...
- Thread starter Apokalupsis
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dutchbb
Well-known member
Not really. They're already in too long to quit at this point. They probably would defend worse products too. Although I'm sure some of them are just trying to help customers.
BTW did anyone check how it's received at vb.org? Many coders out there must see this for what it is right? And is vb.org finally going to upgrade?
FredC
Well-known member
I really dont think there is enough talent left over at vB.org to recreate a better version from the available upgrades.. Im pretty sure Princeton did most of the custom coding of vB.org on the 3.6 platform, but id bet if hes still around he has no interest in trying to recreate something good out of something so flawed.. They have been saying for years that they will update .org eventually.. But its all lip service.. IB knows their last two products v4 and 5 are inferior products and have just enough sense to know it would be an epic failure.. They can, do and will gamble with your communities but they would never take a gamble like that with their own sites.
BGL
Well-known member
Except XF's problems are self inflicted. A solid startup like XF could have gotten loans and or investors to cover the legal costs while increasing revenues and market share and new development. In many ways the IB lawsuit is free advertising for XF, shining a spotlight on what Internet Brands/vBulletin think is their biggest competitive challenge in the forum software market.
FredC
Well-known member
lol at moving up the 3x chain.. Still no mention of moving up to the current build.. Like i said vB/IB has no problems experimenting on your vBulletin sites but they wont make that leap themselves. vB.org may be the single exception but i highly doubt it.. At any rate why would they bother upgrading to 3.8? if they are going to go through the motions thay should at least use their own latest greatest POS. I say put your money where your mouth is vB.. They havent done it yet because they cant. plain and simple.
craigiri
Well-known member
Back to the revenue side, I have a tough time believing that even those car sites bring in the type of revenue that Big Corporate Congloms are interested in. That is, what seems like good money to you or I or other forum admins or owners, is not enough to throw off a lot of extra in a corporate setting.
IB had a decent idea...one many of us little guys also had. That is, if one forum can make 100K, 200K or 400K a year, maybe 50 forums will make that much times 50. Add to that the expected increases in cost per click as more businesses use the web, and it might look fine on paper.
But such plans avoid one element, the HUMAN element.
We'll see. Some very big companies like Scripps Media own multiple properties, but they also have a some vast media operations on top of those.
These are just business ruminations...nothing more.
IB had a decent idea...one many of us little guys also had. That is, if one forum can make 100K, 200K or 400K a year, maybe 50 forums will make that much times 50. Add to that the expected increases in cost per click as more businesses use the web, and it might look fine on paper.
But such plans avoid one element, the HUMAN element.
We'll see. Some very big companies like Scripps Media own multiple properties, but they also have a some vast media operations on top of those.
These are just business ruminations...nothing more.
dutchbb
Well-known member
I don't think it's fair to make such bold statements without fully understanding the situation. Yes, the publicity helped them at the start of the lawsuit, but as costs go up this is probably not an advantage anymore. And talking about investors sounds like a solution until you understand this is a niche market with very specific investors and with a lawsuit hanging over a small company good luck finding that person wanting to take that risk. That is if they want to involve others in the first place, which is probably not something at the top of their list after the vB experience.
psTubble27
Well-known member
I tended to agree with you, until I read somewhere here a statement which reversed my whole opinion:
"KAM are allowed to not be geniuses in every aspect of life."
We as a whole community have several thousand cumulative years of human experience, whereas they're just regular people with their own innate blinders and tumults of life. Kier had then just married and had a little son, and Mike married just recently this summer. These are guys, like you and me, who just happened to be geniuses in PHP and writing forums.
In many ways I would've wished that the community would contribute free knowledge and expertise, but that'd be too much to ask of any group of members on an online forum. If I had marketing experience I'd chip in and help them manage the image. If I were a professional lawyer I'd be all over that lawsuit like wetness over water. Jake and Slavik are doing a good job of chipping in unpaid moderatorship, so at least someone is doing something to help.
craigiri
Well-known member
Steve Jobs "harvested" Woz. These dudes may have needed to be harvested....by some money and some marketing/biz folks.
I worked out the basic economics a few times....and it definitely satisfies. Investors would not have been hard to find...I suspect...then or now. It's just that when you have risk like the suit, you may have to give more to the investors.
All monday morning Quarterbacking, of course (that's what we Americans call having wisdom after the play is over).
I worked out the basic economics a few times....and it definitely satisfies. Investors would not have been hard to find...I suspect...then or now. It's just that when you have risk like the suit, you may have to give more to the investors.
All monday morning Quarterbacking, of course (that's what we Americans call having wisdom after the play is over).
psTubble27
Well-known member
Of course the previous marketing/biz folks 'harvested' them in their own way, harvested them so much that we're all still feeling the pain from it.
robdog
Well-known member
Those car websites bring in big $$$$. Trust me, I used to work at premier auto website and they were making a killing at lead gen and ad sales.
ManagerJosh
Well-known member
That's not necessarily a good thing. Having loans from banks or external investors means outside people are calling the shots and becoming the decision makers. It would shift the decision making process away from Kier, Mike and Ashley.
It would also mean they could force the lawsuit to end quickly.
It would also mean they could potentially dictate what needs to end up in the next product, and put us right back where we were with Internet Brands acquiring vBulletin
craigiri
Well-known member
I suppose you are correct IF they deal with leads to dealers and private ad sales....
I was thinking adsense....maybe not so much.
FredC
Well-known member
They are related products.. they will always be compared especially when you consider the fact that vB and XF have more common ground then XF and IPB in the sense of who devoloped what and when.. Im still trying to figure out how one goes about glorifying a turd, but i guess it could be done.
psTubble27
Well-known member
That's not how I see it at all. I help support in all the threads that I can, and for example wrote plenty of posts helping you when you first just joined. The two types of posting aren't mutually exclusive.
I see nothing wrong with focusing on VB: they are the entity that's trying to wreck the very existence of this product, a product which has every indication of being transcendental and transformative, in the same way the first forums were to their generation 10-15 years ago.
Secondly, VB is th 800-lb gorilla in the room. They are by far the most dominant player in the market. IB Is used by almost no one still, so VB are the biggest competitor, always being in focus here and an important frame of reference.
And finally, the dropping the ball with vB5 has just been so catastrophic, that that alone sends out ripples of shockwaves, which cant help but affect almost every site in the world (outside of Facebook). It is is THE biggest news of the last 5-10 years, in community software.
better
+thumbsup
Andrew B.
Member
Thanks, Chris.
Carlos
Well-known member
I'm sorry if you were offended...
I'm sorry you felt that way. Was not my intent. I even tried to show my gentleness by putting "I'm sorry to say."
His post make it seem like he has experienced vB4 in some shape or form as admin [staff is very vague, so eh.]
Then he makes this...
This is the part that made me think he did have some experience with a vB4 forum as admin.
Once again, I apologize, to anyone who was offended by my post.
Uh, I wouldn't jump to those conclusions at all. I think they've used their loan(s) already.
I agree that it's not fair to make such bold statements without fully understanding the nature of the situation... Talking about investors does sound like a solution, there's just one problem: Investors don't like to invest in companies that have a pending lawsuit. Internet Brands knows this, so the lawsuit is more or less a collateral damage situation than anything...
Because, not only is xF losing customers because of this lawsuit, it's scaring away potential customers, and investors all in one bullet. Internet Brands' intention is to "bankrupt" xenForo. But these other factors are like "a good thing" to them.
That's quite a lot of bugs, and bugfixes.
psTubble27
Well-known member
Not to harp more and more on poor VB, but this new update is just silly. They probably think it paints them in a good light: "look, we fixed 100+ things you reported!", not realizing that it shows them having been so bad as to release a version with 100+ bugs in it, AND, waiting for the reports from the community in order to know what to fix. Sheesh. It's like they don't have a QA department anymore, seriously.
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