Turn Resource Manager into Xenforo Store

[agison]

I would like to suggest to turn Resource Manager into "Xenforo Store" or "Xenforo Resource Store".
In this store we have Free resources & paid resources and Members can download them free or order it then pay with Paypal.

With paid transactions, Xenforo can get 20% from them, 80% for Developers. Some Addons could be reviewed by Xenforo staffs/Mods for safety.
I think it's fair & it's good for both Developers and Members here, also good for Xenforo owners.

Thanks!

 

[EQnoble]

I'm far happier selling addons through my own system so whatever happens I hope the commercial addons forum stays and we are not forced to use the resources system.

Is it anything you feel like explaining? Genuinely curious here.

 

[jmurrayhead]

Is it anything you feel like explaining? Genuinely curious here.

My curiosity is piqued, as well. If implemented properly, the resource manager could be a great asset to commercial addon developers.

 

[EQnoble]

My curiosity is piqued, as well. If implemented properly, the resource manager could be a great asset to commercial addon developers.

I really thought so myself as well..but there is some reasons that I have been told by a developer already, one being total control over sales, distribution, and records keeping which some devs absolutely find as a need...the other reasons he said were rather obscure to me and I didn't get his logic.

I like to believe I can think outside of the box but I can't put together enough details concerning the issue at hand to effect some kind of brainstorming that would be worth something in the end.

 

[jmurrayhead]

I really thought so myself as well..but there is some reasons that I have been told by a developer already, one being total control over sales, distribution, and records keeping which some devs absolutely find as a need...the other reasons he said were rather obscure to me and I didn't get his logic.

I suppose so. I only seeing it as limiting your client base. Having one place to purchase all XenForo-related products seems to be the way to go. And I'm pretty sure you'd still have control over the price, distribution and be able to keep records.

 

[EQnoble]

I suppose so. I only seeing it as limiting your client base. Having one place to purchase all XenForo-related products seems to be the way to go. And I'm pretty sure you'd still have control over the price, distribution and be able to keep records.

which would be great I agree...I can honestly say I am more likely to buy a product that is for sale here than at another site where I have to sign up again. And I do agree that it is a limitation...especially concerning a new member to the site who may have never heard of anyone in particular and may be hesitant to trust any specific individual here outside of the confines of this forum.

I am just trying to understand a bigger picture than I do right now because I feel the same way as you with the commercial addons based on what I know and how I feel as a consumer of products.

 

[jmurrayhead]

which would be great I agree...I can honestly say I am more likely to buy a product that is for sale here than at another site where I have to sign up again. And I do agree that it is a limitation...especially concerning a new member to the site who may have never heard of anyone in particular and may be hesitant to trust any specific individual here outside of the confines of this forum.

I am just trying to understand a bigger picture than I do right now because I feel the same way as you with the commercial addons based on what I know and how I feel as a consumer of products.

I absolutely HATE having to sign up to other sites to get a product related to another product that I purchased. I said this before - people like one-stop shopping. It's simply more convenient.

 

[Forsaken]

I suppose so. I only seeing it as limiting your client base. Having one place to purchase all XenForo-related products seems to be the way to go. And I'm pretty sure you'd still have control over the price, distribution and be able to keep records.

Unless they make it so you can pass payments to a developers cart, it'll be difficult to manage add-ons/styles with a subscription based model (Yearly renewals).

Then comes the issue of support. For the smaller add-ons, support can be given in a single thread, but this doesn't really work for larger add-ons or styles as critical information will often be lost just a few pages back. For example, for Xenique I've been working on writing tutorials and guides to using our framework, and to do everything properly will take around 30-40 tutorials when I'm done. It would make more sense to do that on our own site than it would for it to be here.

Another issue is another fee for using the resource manager (If they have one). This is just an estimate, but if you're selling an add-on for $30, with the fee from XenForo (If it is around the 20%-30% that most places use) and the fee from Paypal, you'll only be getting $25 of that. While that doesn't sound like much, for something like styles and add-ons it is quite a bit.

I absolutely HATE having to sign up to other sites to get a product related to another product that I purchased. I said this before - people like one-stop shopping. It's simply more convenient.

It is only more convenient for the customer, not for the provider. Unless we're expected to give up our site and use only the resource manager, we would have to monitor two different sites for sales. Also having to provide support on two separate sites.

I'm starting to feel as if when they add commercial support (If they do), providers who do not use it will be ostracized for doing so.

 

[Trekkan]

I'm starting to feel as if when they add commercial support (If they do), providers who do not use it will be ostracized for doing so.

If the mods are good, people will do what they have to in order to purchase them. =) As with any new thing I've seen here, people get all crazy about things and then once things settle down, they mellow out and continue on with life. While there is something to say for a one stop shop, it's obvious it doesn't work for everything and people sell millions of items a day that aren't coming from Amazon, etc.

AKA, don't worry too much. =)

 

[Forsaken]

If the mods are good, people will do what they have to in order to purchase them. =) As with any new thing I've seen here, people get all crazy about things and then once things settle down, they mellow out and continue on with life. While there is something to say for a one stop shop, it's obvious it doesn't work for everything and people sell millions of items a day that aren't coming from Amazon, etc.

AKA, don't worry too much. =)

I'm not worried, but you can already see the attitude a bit.

My opinion is if you are unwilling to sign-up to a site for a product that needs to more management than a 3rd party can provide, you obviously just don't need the product that much.

 

[dutchbb]

It's bad enough the number of expensive paid mods popping up, no need to intensify this trend and lose even more competitive edge against vb.org.

 

[jmurrayhead]

Unless they make it so you can pass payments to a developers cart, it'll be difficult to manage add-ons/styles with a subscription based model (Yearly renewals).

I don't see this as being a problem. They should be able to create a service that addon developers can consume from their sites to pull certain data to help maintain this.

Then comes the issue of support. For the smaller add-ons, support can be given in a single thread, but this doesn't really work for larger add-ons or styles as critical information will often be lost just a few pages back. For example, for Xenique I've been working on writing tutorials and guides to using our framework, and to do everything properly will take around 30-40 tutorials when I'm done. It would make more sense to do that on our own site than it would for it to be here.

I'm not against this at all. If I need support, I have no issue going to the author's site if that's what they prefer. I'm the type that typically doesn't need much support, anyway.

Another issue is another fee for using the resource manager (If they have one). This is just an estimate, but if you're selling an add-on for $30, with the fee from XenForo (If it is around the 20%-30% that most places use) and the fee from Paypal, you'll only be getting $25 of that. While that doesn't sound like much, for something like styles and add-ons it is quite a bit.

I understand this and I don't think there should be a fee. Addons developers are doing XenForo a great service.

It is only more convenient for the customer, not for the provider. Unless we're expected to give up our site and use only the resource manager, we would have to monitor two different sites for sales. Also having to provide support on two separate sites.

Just to address this again, I think the resource manager should have an option for each addon that allows the developer to state whether or not support will be provided here or at the developer's site. When checked, creating threads or posts or whatever will not be allowed and a link to the developer's site will be provided instead.

I'm starting to feel as if when they add commercial support (If they do), providers who do not use it will be ostracized for doing so.

Then find a way to take advantage of it.

My opinion is if you are unwilling to sign-up to a site for a product that needs to more management than a 3rd party can provide, you obviously just don't need the product that much.

My opinion is if you are unwilling to provide a more convenient means for you customers to purchase your products, you obviously just don't need their money that much.

 

[Forsaken]

My opinion is if you are unwilling to provide a more convenient means for you customers to purchase your products, you obviously just don't need their money that much.

I'm all for things being convenient for customers, if it doesn't cause issues with providing a good service. Here are some examples of how it is unlikely commercial abilities of the resource manager will not work for Xenique:

1) We manually approve each and every customer as a preventive measure against pirates. While it is possible that the commercial capabilities might support manual approval (Again, just speculation), we wouldn't have the amount of information to check (Just a fyi, I've caught 3 people who are on pirate websites requesting to buy our styles and/or asking for custom work based off of another clients).

2) Our plans in the future are to issue a license of our framework with each style that requires it. This is to make things a bit easier in managing versions between the styles and the framework, so people can be sure they can always readily get the framework at any moment.

3) We have plans to have a coupon system added for events and specials. We're also probably going to use it for managing custom designs, so they'll have a place they can easily access the archive, as well as the style framework.

4) We plan on also using the cart for custom work (Stated above).

5) Add-ons to styles (Branding free, custom logo, custom icons, custom templates) are also going to be added to the cart as additional services to a product.

As you can see, the plans that we have in place are to make everything as convenient for the customer, as well as make things as easy to manage and convenient for ourselves as well. While it would be great if the resource manager would work well for us, chances are it will pale in comparison to the amount of control we have over our services, and as I pointed out it is control needed to provide a quality service.

 

[jmurrayhead]

I'm all for things being convenient for customers, if it doesn't cause issues with providing a good service. Here are some examples of how it is unlikely commercial abilities of the resource manager will not work for Xenique:

1) We manually approve each and every customer as a preventive measure against pirates. While it is possible that the commercial capabilities might support manual approval (Again, just speculation), we wouldn't have the amount of information to check (Just a fyi, I've caught 3 people who are on pirate websites requesting to buy our styles and/or asking for custom work based off of another clients).

2) Our plans in the future are to issue a license of our framework with each style that requires it. This is to make things a bit easier in managing versions between the styles and the framework, so people can be sure they can always readily get the framework at any moment.

3) We have plans to have a coupon system added for events and specials. We're also probably going to use it for managing custom designs, so they'll have a place they can easily access the archive, as well as the style framework.

4) We plan on also using the cart for custom work (Stated above).

5) Add-ons to styles (Branding free, custom logo, custom icons, custom templates) are also going to be added to the cart as additional services to a product.

As you can see, the plans that we have in place are to make everything as convenient for the customer, as well as make things as easy to manage and convenient for ourselves as well. While it would be great if the resource manager would work well for us, chances are it will pale in comparison to the amount of control we have over our services, and as I pointed out it is control needed to provide a quality service.

Well I can't really argue any of that. At the very least, I'd like the RM to be a directory of all resources, paid and non-paid, so we have a centralized place to look. It should at least have the option for the addon author to select an option to allow it to be paid through XenForo, or redirect the customer to the appropriate site.

 

[Forsaken]

Well I can't really argue any of that. At the very least, I'd like the RM to be a directory of all resources, paid and non-paid, so we have a centralized place to look. It should at least have the option for the addon author to select an option to allow it to be paid through XenForo, or redirect the customer to the appropriate site.

The only issue I would have with the commercial portion is the management of subscription based resources (styles/many premium add-ons). One-off things would do fine, and the resource manager would work well for it.

If they redirect to the official site of an add-on, or pass the information to the developer/designers site for sales, that would be perfect. The later would be perfect and would change my mind about using it for styles (I intend to use the resource manager for add-ons my partner Joey and I have planned).

 

[Robbo]

For the record I think 30% would be too much.

 

[digitalpoint]

It would be quite nice... not because I want to sell addons, but it would be useful for some stuff I want to do with the RM once I license a copy.

PayPal's chained payment system would be great... It allows buyer to pay the seller directly, and then on the backend, PayPal takes some of the money (whatever precent the site owner takes when people still stuff on their site) and sends it to the site owner. The buyer never sees part of their payment going somewhere else, and the seller doesn't need to worry about remembering to pay the fees.

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?...D=developer/e_howto_api_APIntro#id091QF0I30YK

Toss in some basic/optional licensing rules to a resource... For example, buyer can download all versions that come out within xx months of buying, buyer can redownload a maximum of xx times, etc. and you would have a fairly powerful platform that retains simplicity.

 

[EQnoble]

It would be quite nice... not because I want to sell addons, but it would be useful for some stuff I want to do with the RM once I license a copy.

PayPal's chained payment system would be great... It allows buyer to pay the seller directly, and then on the backend, PayPal takes some of the money (whatever precent the site owner takes when people still stuff on their site) and sends it to the site owner. The buyer never sees part of their payment going somewhere else, and the seller doesn't need to worry about remembering to pay the fees.

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?...D=developer/e_howto_api_APIntro#id091QF0I30YK

Toss in some basic/optional licensing rules to a resource... For example, buyer can download all versions that come out within xx months of buying, buyer can redownload a maximum of xx times, etc. and you would have a fairly powerful platform that retains simplicity.

I setup a paypal sandbox to play around with a couple weeks ago and now that I am kind of getting how it works...this all seems totally logical, the parallel payment and chained payment methods seems like it would allow for a lot to be done as far as an addon using paypal's api is concerned. It may be quite complex to integrate with an addon but I think it is a solid benefit if it is able to be done.

 

[digitalpoint]

I setup a paypal sandbox to play around with a couple weeks ago and now that I am kind of getting how it works...this all seems totally logical, the parallel payment and chained payment methods seems like it would allow for a lot to be done as far as an addon using paypal's api is concerned. It may be quite complex but I think it is a solid benefit if it is able to be done.

It's a lot simpler than it sounds. I've actually started to build the framework into my XF dev install as a prep for extending the RM once I get my hands on it. The chained/adaptive payments, coupled with the Permission service (simplifies the seller granting permission to the site to setup/take payments on their behalf) ends up being pretty nice.

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?...ent_ID=developer/e_howto_api_PermissionsAbout

 

[EQnoble]

It's a lot simpler than it sounds. I've actually started to build the framework into my XF dev install as a prep for extending the RM once I get my hands on it. The chained/adaptive payments, coupled with the Permission service (simplifies the seller granting permission to the site to setup/take payments on their behalf) ends up being pretty nice.

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?...ent_ID=developer/e_howto_api_PermissionsAbout

Thanks for that link...though I am still slowly two-steppin it at an early place in the API doc, I totally get what the purpose stated on that page is...constructing the code properly is my problem .


Will your framework be connected to a sandbox account and have some sort of test-frontend in the meantime until you get the RM? I would really like to see it in action...I understand better when there is something tangible is all.

For that matter...I see in that link that you need to request permissions to act as a third part cart...is this something that can be tested as well... like for instance, if you have your framework setup could it's functionality be tested by setting up my sandbox account as a merchant in your framework and then using a third sandbox account to make the fake purchase?

 

[digitalpoint]

Thanks for that link...though I am still slowly two-steppin it at an early place in the API doc, I totally get what the purpose stated on that page is...constructing the code properly is my problem .


Will your framework be connected to a sandbox account and have some sort of test-frontend in the meantime until you get the RM? I would really like to see it in action...I understand better when there is something tangible is all.

For that matter...I see in that link that you need to request permissions to act as a third part cart...is this something that can be tested as well... like for instance, if you have your framework setup could it's functionality be tested by setting up my sandbox account as a merchant in your framework and then using a third sandbox account to make the fake purchase?

Nope... I'm just building the backend in hopes of later making the RM the front-end.