The obligatory "Go XenForo!" thread
- Thread starter Teapot
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Teapot
Well-known member
Jake Bunce posts in the official lawsuit update thread every time there is news. What else do you want? Kier to post every single week saying "there's nothing new except whatever Jake Bunce has posted?" Slavik already told you that KAM try and avoid participating directly in lawsuit speculation, and for good reason seeing as they're directly involved in it.
Clearly, if there was anything to tell, we'd know about it. The fact that we haven't heard anything in the last four days undoubtedly means there's just nothing to tell.
ArnyVee
Well-known member
HWS, since we don't know whether there are legal ramifications for releasing information or updating customers on the status of the lawsuit, then I can't fault the owners/staff of xenForo for not communicating about that.
As far as 'updates' to the software, I would be upset on how customers were being treated IF the product did not work. But, it's a fully-functional software which is fabulous. I'm not one of those 'fanboy' types ... I'm a type that makes decisions based on facts and information available to me. The facts are that the software works as advertised. But, because of the ongoing development being in temporary 'limbo' until the results of this lawsuit, I have not committed 100% to bringing over my forums from vBulletin.
With that being said, I am hoping for the best and getting things ready for the transition. I've had coders put together custom addons and designers put together custom skins. I've also purchased four xF licenses in preparation as well. So, I'm confident that the outcome will be positive, just don't want to make the moves completely until all is sorted.
As far as 'updates' to the software, I would be upset on how customers were being treated IF the product did not work. But, it's a fully-functional software which is fabulous. I'm not one of those 'fanboy' types ... I'm a type that makes decisions based on facts and information available to me. The facts are that the software works as advertised. But, because of the ongoing development being in temporary 'limbo' until the results of this lawsuit, I have not committed 100% to bringing over my forums from vBulletin.
With that being said, I am hoping for the best and getting things ready for the transition. I've had coders put together custom addons and designers put together custom skins. I've also purchased four xF licenses in preparation as well. So, I'm confident that the outcome will be positive, just don't want to make the moves completely until all is sorted.
Shelley
Well-known member
Can't wait to see your walt disney forum on xenforo Arny I'm betting it'll be nothing short of spectacular looking and of course usability is going to be improved 10 fold. Is that the site your still waiting to move over to XF?
jadmperry
Well-known member
I don't understand the comment. First, it is not assured that there will be a PACER update right away. It could stretch on for some time until there is an update. (I had posted on this before). It is in the nature of the beast that lawsuits take time. They can be a grind. (I sometimes think that television and movies give this false idea that trials are wrapped up like in a 60 minute episode of Law & Order).
By definition, with the exception of actual orders of the court (and sometimes, they also are unclear), all that can be done is to "interpret" a PACER update. Motions and/or briefs filed? They are by definition only understood by "interpreting" them. The only thing not open to interpretation is an actual order. So, I am not even sure that getting anyone's interpretation of these motions/briefs/etc. would address the problem you seem to have- wanting an answer that you can count on about the status at any one time.
As for paying the lawyers to provide such an update- while I think this could possibly be done, it would likely be far more expensive than it is worth. Most of the updates would be nothing more than is already public knowledge and reported on this site. Something along the lines of "On DATE, Judge Real referred the case to a magistrate for a settlement conference." What more can they say about these types of updates? "We remain confident that we will prevail on the motions or at trial"? Is that going to be helpful? As to a substantive update, it would be along the lines of, "On DATE, XF filed a motion to dismiss. We argued that (Insert series of quotes from the motions). We think we will prevail on the motion as the law clearly supports our position." Anything more, as far as substantive explanations? Not sure the purpose of that- most folks will either not understand the issues without a lengthy explanation of substantive law and procedures. Akin to asking the lawyers to impart what years of law school, years of experience practicing law, and an overview of the current law says about an issue. This would be a major undertaking- many hours for each motion/point. And why do that? Most folks will not be bothered to read it...if they do, they likely will not understand it. I point out how often my comments are not understood or are taken to mean something else. In the end, the actual filings are what matters for getting an update. And, in the end, any such lawyers' view stated by XF's attorneys will boil down to a presentation of their views- with the problem that it necessarily going to be slanted towards their views. So, I think such an idea would be a waste if you want a pure objective view of the case. But, wait, there is more- You should not underestimate how time consuming any such effort would be. It would probably take many hours of attorneys work for each update. Not only in the time for the junior attorney to draft it, but in reviewing it, getting approval for it from senior attorneys, running it past the client, and then, finally publishing it. Over the course of this case, you would almost certainly be talking many tens of thousands of dollars (and perhaps much more). Given the questionable value of it in the first place and the financial pressure that the actual work on the case has placed on KAM, I don't see this idea as making sense in any way. (I have left out even discussing whether the attorneys would recommend such an idea or would be willing to undertake it- likely, they would do it if the price is right. However, trial attorneys probably would hate the idea of doing lengthy updates cum marketing...and it is unlikely that they are relying on XF as their "main" client...it is not like missed billings to XF means they don't have other clients they can bill to do what they do best- actual trial/legal work).
But, I could be wrong. Maybe this is a great idea.
Ingenious
Well-known member
This is a good point. I'm afraid I used to get as irritated as many others about the lack of updates and lack of communication, but the flip side of this is that Xenforo does work, it does what it does very well, and mine and many communities and businesses have benefited from this. These days I try and just remind myself, it's just a forum platform, why get worked up about it? In the worst case scenario we can all migrate to something else. Also, let's keep in mind the human beings at the centre of this - Kier, Mike and Ashley - since it is highly unlikely they set out on this course of action intentionally to upset people so maybe we could be more compassionate as a community.
SchmitzIT
Well-known member
If you need an extra hand, give us a shout, or get Tim to give you my phone number
Brad L
Well-known member
There is no need to kiss butt. The fact is that KAM could have done much better at updating the community about what's going on. We, as paying customers, have been left to figure it out on our own over the past couple years. That being said, I don't expect their behavior to change now.
Morgain
Well-known member
I am willing to respect that there are good reasons why KAM do not comment.
Option A) Legal advice not to do so.
Option B) Caution in case anything they say is used against them (similar to A but without formal legal counsel)
Option C) Busy working long hours to make money
Option D) Exhausted with stress from the case.
Option D) Don't want to stimulate questions they cannot answer, or don't want the extra work to answer questions stimulated because of being tired and busy (see C and D).
Option E) Don't see the value of a brief post saying "Cheers everyone, we're still here and you can check Jake's thread for updates. Meanwhile thanks to everyone for your support, much appreciated."
I think E definitely applies. When Kier made a tiny post a few weeks ago everyone was absolutely DELIGHTED. It was so good for morale. A few words meant so much.
I have posted before that I think it's a mistake not to give us a spoonful of politeness. Once a fortnight, 5 mins is not a lot. It might not have content but politeness counts for a lot.
I continue to lovingly support XF but I do criticise this point.
Option A) Legal advice not to do so.
Option B) Caution in case anything they say is used against them (similar to A but without formal legal counsel)
Option C) Busy working long hours to make money
Option D) Exhausted with stress from the case.
Option D) Don't want to stimulate questions they cannot answer, or don't want the extra work to answer questions stimulated because of being tired and busy (see C and D).
Option E) Don't see the value of a brief post saying "Cheers everyone, we're still here and you can check Jake's thread for updates. Meanwhile thanks to everyone for your support, much appreciated."
I think E definitely applies. When Kier made a tiny post a few weeks ago everyone was absolutely DELIGHTED. It was so good for morale. A few words meant so much.
I have posted before that I think it's a mistake not to give us a spoonful of politeness. Once a fortnight, 5 mins is not a lot. It might not have content but politeness counts for a lot.
I continue to lovingly support XF but I do criticise this point.
Sheldon
Well-known member
Quoted for the truth.
Digital Doctor
Well-known member
in b 4
Digital Doctor
Well-known member
w8 4 pacer
Kim
Well-known member
I have to agree Morgain, it is really most disappointing that the bearest of minimal communications has not been kept open.
Especially given the great depth of interaction that used to be the norm on the board - now know one is expecting that, but tossing the community a few bones now and again isn't going to kill anyone.
I also love this product and still have immense love and respect for the creators, however manners never go astray, this community has suffered so much through neglect and mismanagement on all levels.
Nerds are weird I agree craigiri, which is why most nerds partner up with non-nerds to do the communication for them.
Still love you Xenforo, but please give something back every now and again or engage someone who can.
Especially given the great depth of interaction that used to be the norm on the board - now know one is expecting that, but tossing the community a few bones now and again isn't going to kill anyone.
I also love this product and still have immense love and respect for the creators, however manners never go astray, this community has suffered so much through neglect and mismanagement on all levels.
Nerds are weird I agree craigiri, which is why most nerds partner up with non-nerds to do the communication for them.
Still love you Xenforo, but please give something back every now and again or engage someone who can.
Just a quick question to Jake and Slavik and the other half-official guys: Have you talked with Kier or Mike or Ashley about the settlement talks which started 12 days ago? Do you know if the settlement talks are still ongoing or are closed now? I even don't want to know the outcome. Just if you know it and tell us to wait for PACER.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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