Implemented The position of key buttons next to the breadcrumb

[Grover]

I am gonna to have a break from XenForo in the time to come. I just want to put the following in the limelight, because I feel it is or will become an issue when using XenForo. I think XenForo is (almost) perfect when it comes to the UI/UX, but I feel this could need some attention before XF becomes Gold.

I am talking about the position of key buttons like [Post New Thread] or [Search Threads and Posts] next to the breadcrumb. I believe this is a fundamentally wrong position and I will show why I think that.

[Search Threads and Posts]
First, there is this example about the [Search Threads and Posts]-button:
http://xenforo.com/community/thread...ics.2082/#post-30259

The [Search Threads and Posts] button there is more or less unrecognizable as a button that should be pressed to get more search options. It gets overlooked, very understandably, by endusers. To prevent it from being overlooked, it has to be put more into the viewpoint of the enduser. And that means... as close to the information-area as possible, there where the eye-focus of the enduser is. Meaning: in the center of the screen (right above the search input fields for example), not somewhere in a corner where it is not visible/clear/intuitive enough.

[Post New Thread]
The same problem occurs when users need to post a New Thread, as pointed out by Shanj in the following discussion where a visual example is posted in:
http://xenforo.com/community/thread...ead.2538/#post-41403

Needless to say that this can become obviously problematic. I don't know how XenForo displays multiple subforums underneath each other, but I could imagine it would be like this:

I believe a good UI should make it as easy/intuitive as possible to post a thread. Posting threads is THE BASIS of forums in the first place. That's why I find it a bit remarkable that XenForo puts the KEY button for this in a really counter-productive and non-intuitive position. A button with such an importance should be placed right there where the focus of the endusers-eye is, the moment he/she wants to post a new thread. And that is as near to the existing threadtitles as possible.

Those are my last constructive suggestions I will put out for a while (XF is near perfect in it's UI/UX for me). Hopefully M&K can share a part of this vision and re-think a bit the positions of those key buttons. I believe it will make XF better.

Keep up the good work (developers + community) and see you again after XF Gold's release!

Grover.

Please do [like] this first posting if you think it is a good feature suggestion for XenForo

 

[Paul B]

As I said previously, if it was to be moved I feel it would be better off next to the other links on the right.
Both aesthetically and functionally.



That would also make it consistent with the lower "Post New Thread" button.

 

[Grover]

As I said previosuly, if it was to be moved I feel it would be better off next to the other links on the right.
Both aesthetically and functionally.

Ah, I see you added screenshots later . In the meantime I added Example 4 based on your text explanation here.

Reading your previous suggestion I assumed (wrongly) that you wanted to have the button in front of the links 'Mark this forum read'... which would look terrible. But I agree with you, positioning it on the right in line with the same button at the bottom of the threadlist would be a really good (and easiest) solution. It has got to be removed from the breadcrumb (for many reasons stated already) and your solution will solve almost everything.

Except then only for those people who have their mouse on the left (instead of the center as you do) when they browse/look at the threadlist. Both for people who have their mouse on the left and on the center a left-aligned button would be the best. So the only con for a right-aligned button is that it is would be less convenient for those people who have their mouse on the left (would be interesting to have some user-behaviour-test-data on this, wouldn't it?)... other than that your solution is already much preferred over the current state.

I am curious (somehow I think they might go for your idea) to see what Gold will bring us . I still (for several good reasons) believe it is best positioned on the left.

 

[Paul B]

I can appreciate why you would want the button on the left, as that is where it seems to be with most (all?) other software.

However, there is no room below the thread list for that so the bottom nav links would need to be moved over to the right.
Then to balance it up, the upper nav links would also need to moved to the right, which would mean moving all the links to the left.

Then for consistency you'd also have to do that with the thread view...

 

[dutchbb]

I've been thinking about this, tbh I think they should keep it the way it is for now. The proposed solutions are either worse (adding clutter) and/or nothing new. XF has found an original solution by using the breadcrumb, and once you get used to it, it's really not a problem.

 

[Grover]

I can appreciate why you would want the button on the left, as that is where it seems to be with most (all?) other software.

I was also curious about that , so coincidentally I looked up a few minutes ago how other software does it:

[Post New Thread] on the left
- vBulletin
Example: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?47-vBulletin-Pre-sales-Questions
- phpBB
Example: http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewforum.php?f=14

[Post New Thread] on the right
- MyBB
Example: http://community.mybb.com/forum-11.html
- Invision
Example: http://community.invisionpower.com/forum/305-pre-sales-questions/

However, there is no room below the thread list for that so the bottom nav links would need to be moved over to the right.
Then to balance it up, the upper nav links would also need to moved to the right, which would mean moving all the links to the left.

Yeah, that's why I called your solution 'a really good (and easiest) solution'.

 

[Grover]

I've been thinking about this, tbh I think they should keep it the way it is for now. The proposed solutions are either worse (adding clutter) and/or nothing new. XF has found an original solution by using the breadcrumb, and once you get used to it, it's really not a problem.

You think our proposed solutions are worse then this? Imagine what would happen if our platform (which we want to be powered by XenForo) consists of lots of subforums (and my platforms happen to have that). You prefer that to any of the 4 suggestions posted here? That is a bit puzzling to me.

 

[Peggy]

but we don't want to copy other software. XF is unique, different, and not a copy of any other software, in any way.
I hope it stays that way.

 

[dutchbb]

You think our proposed solutions are worse then this? Imagine what would happen if our platform (which we want to be powered by XenForo) consists of lots of subforums (and my platforms happen to have that). You prefer that to any of the 4 suggestions posted here? That is a bit puzzling to me.

You are correct about the sub-forums increasing the space, however when you know about the location at the top, it actually makes it easy to click because the button is close to other navigation buttons & links and the scrollbar. It's not that bad once you get used to it...

BTW in your screenshot in the OP you have repeated the orange bar for every sub-forum, this is actually not the way it is, they're all in the same box.

 

[Grover]

but we don't want to copy other software. XF is unique, different, and not a copy of any other software, in any way.
I hope it stays that way.

I should stay out of this conversation by now , but to be honest I never quite get why people keep referring to the fact that XF should be unique and not a copy of any other software out there. By all means, this is not an argument when it comes to the usability of software. You can be unique in any way you want, but if that means a sacrifice of end-user usability, I am sorry, but that just doesn't make sense, does it? XF is (was by now... already 3 instances have been removed) unique by using buttons next to the breadcrumb. It didn't work out in many areas and the [Post New Thread] is one of them.

I think Brogan posted the easiest solution and for me every solution (although I will always prefer the button on the left) to get buttons away from the breadcrumb will do. It has nothing to do with wanting to copy other software, that should be clear by now after repeating myself over and over again why that breadcrumb-design is fundamentally wrong. I rest my case and am eagerly awaiting Gold (hopefully with at least Brogan's solution implemented). Thanks for participating and to all the people who can see the same and the developers for listening and implementing those improvements that have already been made thanks to our efforts of putting free time and energy into these suggestions.

 

[Grover]

I should stay out of this conversation by now , (...) I rest my case (...)

Okay, I couldn't help myself , but I promise this is the last you will hear from me! For all of those who still don't get it... here is a real-life example taken from one of the greatest XenForo powered websites out there (www.8wayrun.com) as we speak:

(Real-life example of the ease of use when posting a new thread if you have a lot of subforums...)


(For those interested in the text displayed there...)


(edit: Full Sized image here for our viewing pleasure...)

(more convenient direct zoomable link here: http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/9604/themiraculousbutton.png)

Amen .

And to my fellow 'dutchman':

You are correct about the sub-forums increasing the space, however when you know about the location at the top, it actually makes it easy to click because the button is close to other navigation buttons & links and the scrollbar. It's not that bad once you get used to it...

BTW in your screenshot in the OP you have repeated the orange bar for every sub-forum, this is actually not the way it is, they're all in the same box.

... the above real-life screenshot gives me all the answers I need . I will never get used to something like this, I am sure of it. So will my staff and forum members. (thank god for the [Post New Thread]-button on the bottom-right corner).

 

[Dean]

No, the Post New Thread button definitely needs to be moved in my humble opinion. Either one of these would work from a functionality viewpoint. There could be other ways to handle it possibly. The 2nd one is the same as Brogans input.

Here are some examples how it will look when the important [Post New Thread]-button is moved to the left:

Example 3
-
View attachment 7923

Example 4
-
View attachment 7932

Take your pick...

 

[Grover]

No, the Post New Thread button definitely needs to be moved in my humble opinion. Either one of these would work from a functionality viewpoint.

Thank you Dean for participating. I am happy to see staff members understanding and acknowledging the problem at hand. Let's see what Kier (who already understood us the first time ) and Mike think and make of it all. It is just that because Gold is due to be released soon I felt the need to put the attention to this request again.

 

[dutchbb]

A few questions:

1. Do we have scientific data supporting the statement that having the button at the top is worse than having it further on the page?
2. Assuming the answer is yes, do people expect the button further on the page because they are used to vBulletin, or because they can naturally find it easier there?

Let's say people are used to vB, and this is the reason we should place the button directly above the thread list, are we then creating a new product with the best possible UI or are we just cloning vBulletin?

What we need to know is: where do people look when they never visited a forum before, again we have no data for this AFAIK. It could very well be the case that they look for this button at the top of the page, next to their trusty breadcrumb. These kind of things require investigation, not speculation.

 

[Marc]

I personally like the idea of what brogan posted above and agree it doesnt instantly grab your eye where it is at present. It comes down to users for me and running a forum where the majority of users are very none technical and have to be pointed to the power button on their PCs before being able to post, having the new topic button closer to the topic list would def be an advantage IMO

 

[erich37]

generally speaking, I think the "Post new Thread" button is not very visible for new Forum-members.
We are all used to XF by now so we know where to find that button, but I really think that this button is not visible for any new members at all of our forums.....

 

[Digital Doctor]

View attachment 7930

I think some people also want a "Subscribe to this forum" up there as well.

 

[Paul B]

I think some people also want a "Subscribe to this forum" up there as well.

Done



Mod tools have been moved to the far left of the group so the links and button remain in the same place for normal users and moderators.

 

[Digital Doctor]

This could be "fixed" by having the posts appear above the subforums for this one particular forum.

As in this mod:
http://xenforo.com/community/thread...-appear-above-forums-and-not-below-them.7627/

I think if someone had more than 3 subforums, I think a CSS edit with COLUMNS is a good idea.
For Jaxel's specific problem, I think he should turn the 20 SC4 arena subforums into Sub-subforums with a

SC4 arenas

SC4 arena lists​

SC4 arenas​

SC4 discussion​

​

 

[TrixieTang]

I can appreciate why you would want the button on the left, as that is where it seems to be with most (all?) other software.

There are only 3 that I can think of that have it on the left, and there are over 10 that I can think of that have it on the right.

Left

• vBulletin
• phpBB
  
• UBB

Right

• IPB
• MyBB
• SMF
• PunBB
• UseBB
• YaBB
• XMB
  
• Ikonboard
  
• Burning Board
  
• NovaBoard
  
• phpWind
• Discuz!

 

[Jeffin]

I just realized, it is definitely difficult for a new user to locate the button especially when there are a lot of sub-forums and I like the idea or relocating or making the Post new thread button bigger or bolder.

I suggest a bigger button like in the modified screen-shot below (they have this button in vanilla forums):