Reselling XenForo License?

[mcmar]

Hi, i am thinking to buy a Used XenForo License from my mate. Is this allowed?

#1. Let's say i am buying a license from a guy i know, it's already been resold twice? Allowed or not?
#2. I buy a license from a guy that have never resold hes license.

 

[Jake Bunce]

No, I mean it's really not ironic. The lawsuit in no way resembles the clause in the license agreement about transfers. The comparison doesn't hold up.

...makes you look not much better than the competitors that you learned to hate so much.

Well then, you should probably act on your perception. I personally object to doing business with IB because of their behavior. If you think us like them then I recommend not doing business with us anymore.

 

[Mark.B]

If I did decide to sell I wouldn't be looking to make a profit anyhow. Not everything in life is about money.

 

[Jake Bunce]

Jake, you are just a volunteer moderator, at least that is what everyone wants us to believe. As such, I am perplexed at your loftily attitude to tell me with whom I ought to do business and with whom not.

It was just a recommendation based on your characterization of us. Comparing us to IB is quite a low blow. If you believe that then you should certainly act on it.

Did you have a license you wish to transfer?

 

[ArnyVee]

Jake, if anyone needs to get rid of any licenses simply add them to my account and we'll be done with all of this

 

[Mark.B]

Comparing us to IB is quite a low blow.

That probably comes about Jake because the owners of XenForo have treated, and continue to treat, the customers with some degree of contempt. They shouldn't be surprised if this prompts comments like the above.

 

[Brett Peters]

Well then, you should probably act on your perception. I personally object to doing business with IB because of their behavior. If you think us like them then I recommend not doing business with us anymore.

Jake, I must admit it took me a while to figure you out but after the following quote I think its time for a and a

 

[Jake Bunce]

Jake, I must admit it took me a while to figure you out but after the following quote I think its time for a and a

I have a bag of tricks. My technique in this case is one of not resisting. Most poor arguments require validation from the opponent. I simply refuse to provide that validation by not offering a counterargument. That basically kills the original argument because it cannot stand on its own. It also forces the accuser to take responsibility for their argument, and most people are averse to responsibility.

I am a nightmare to argue with. I don't recommend it.

 

[ArnyVee]

Ah, I see. So, we shouldn't simply overreact and not only respond with emotions, feelings and empty rhetoric (with a hint of a hidden agenda)?

A boy can only dream

 

[Slavik]

Isn't it ironic. A company like XF, ill-treated by a lawsuit aiming at misinterpreting the law, is misinterpreting (or in this case ignoring) the law itself? Ashley, Jake, who cares what is written in your license agreement if your license agreement is not in accordance with the respective laws? The European Court of Justice has declared that digitally distributed software can be resold as "used", just like any physical product. "Therefore," the court explains, "even if the licence agreement prohibits a further transfer, the rightholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy." Moreover, the business must also provide patches and updates to the new customer. Is this so difficult to grasp?

Again the below is not official. However I guess its pretty accurate.

Your partly correct. However your interpretation is slightly off.

XenForo can not legally oppose the sale of the software even past the first transfer, in this you are correct. However this does not mean we have to support the transfer process within the internal system. This means any second hand purchases would be at the purchasers risk as if the original owner is found to have a copy of the software, or, does not update the URL as mandated in the license agreement, XenForo would have the right to invalidate said license.

Updates available are allowed up to the point of sale. Any further updates past this point do not have to be supported by XenForo.

What the ruling is not specific enough on is the application of limited updates to unlimited software. As it currently stands it could be interpretted that your resale of the software is only eligible for the version you purchased originally as the access to updates is a limited yearly renewed license, which is exempt from this ruling. In which case it could be that if you originally purchased XenForo in the beta as an extreme example. The beta is all you are permissable to resell. Anything else would constitude a breach of license and could result in the license being invalidated.

All in all Alex you are attemping to cause arguement for the sake of causing arguement. All you may end up doing is causing the license agreement to be updated to be less friendly than it currently is by having a limited time clause being added in. Is that what you want?

 

[Jake Bunce]

Touching. You refer to me as an "opponent", although I have never opposed you. You refer to me pointing out XF's violation of EU law as "poor argument", yet you neglect to accept the truth, namely that XF is willingly refusing its customers' rights. And now you openly celebrate your moderation "skills". This all may be a big joke to you, Jake, but the truth is, you are not XF, no matter how much you step in for them and try to defend their acts. XF keeps living under a rock, hiding behind the backs of some volunteers, and that, Jake, is truly despicable and not any better than what we've seen from competing companies.

Did you have a license you wish to transfer?

 

[Sheldon]

I do have a license. I may want to transfer it. And I believe I am allowed to. But XF wants me (and others) to believe otherwise.

If it will shut you up, I will take it.

 

[Jake Bunce]

I am not allowed to, says XF.

Why not?

 

[Shelley]

Why not?

Again the below is not official. However I guess its pretty accurate.

Your partly correct. However your interpretation is slightly off.

XenForo can not legally oppose the sale of the software even past the first transfer, in this you are correct. However this does not mean we have to support the transfer process within the internal system. This means any second hand purchases would be at the purchasers risk as if the original owner is found to have a copy of the software, or, does not update the URL as mandated in the license agreement, XenForo would have the right to invalidate said license.

Updates available are allowed up to the point of sale. Any further updates past this point do not have to be supported by XenForo.

What the ruling is not specific enough on is the application of limited updates to unlimited software. As it currently stands it could be interpretted that your resale of the software is only eligible for the version you purchased originally as the access to updates is a limited yearly renewed license, which is exempt from this ruling. In which case it could be that if you originally purchased XenForo in the beta as an extreme example. The beta is all you are permissable to resell. Anything else would constitude a breach of license and could result in the license being invalidated.

All in all Alex you are attemping to cause arguement for the sake of causing arguement. All you may end up doing is causing the license agreement to be updated to be less friendly than it currently is by having a limited time clause being added in. Is that what you want?

Is that so? And please enlighten us how the license agreement will/may be chopped and change at a whim so it goes against the customers. Or was that merely an empty threat?

 

[Jake Bunce]

Good question, Jake. Someone from XF might know the answer, preferably someone who came up with the specific licensing terms.

I can find the answer if you give me your license number. Or you can probably just tell me the answer. There are three criteria for transfer eligibility:

1) The license is at least 4 months old.

2) The license is active.

3) The license has not been previously transferred.

Which of these do you not pass?

 

[Slavik]

Usual disclaimer: not offical.

Please show me where that is stated. Because it is 100% wrong. It is not the buyer's obligation to verify that the software is valid and/or that the previous buyer removed it from his systems. It is the software developer's responsibility to make sure his license stays intact. That is why people invented DRM.

Like I said, its buyers risk. The ruling does not enforce that XenForo has to support transfers within the internal system. Therefore it is up to the buyer and seller to ensure that the terms of the license agreement for usage of the XenForo software is met by both parties.

Again, 100% wrong. Updates will have to be continued to the new licensee. Show me where it says the contrary.

I'll link to this analysis by forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/raywang...p-monopolistic-practices-by-software-vendors/

• Software publishers can no longer oppose the resale of the copy of software. The court clarified two points on resales of copies of software. The first, “Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy- tangible or intangible – and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a license agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that right holder sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right.” The second, “Such a transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy. Therefore, even if the license agreement prohibits a further transfer, the right holder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy”
  
  Point of View (POV): The clarifications on the resale of the copy of software have huge ramifications. Based on the ruling, “the distribution right extends to the copy of the computer program sold as corrected and updated by the copyright holder”. Users basically have rights to all updates at the time of the sale and this latest version can be sold to the secondary market. Users who fail to download updates have rights to resell those alterations to the next customer. The subsequent customer would not have such rights.

What, now I am the bad guy? Rather than you, Slavik, speaking in a tone of authority that you don't have, how about someone from XF to step up and speak clearly to us. And by clearly I mean not like Ashley, who bothered to make a single post before leaving things again to a couple of volunteers, in which he basically stated that he gives a damn for EU laws

If you look at every post made by me in this thread you'll see each one has a disclaimer that it is not an offical possition of XenForo.

But if you want to get snappy and disrespectful I can just close the thread instead.

 

[Slavik]

Is that so? And please enlighten us how the license agreement will/may be chopped and change at a whim so it goes against the customers. Or was that merely an empty threat?

Who said anything about a threat? As a license holder i'm looking out my personal interests also. I don't want the license agreement to be forced into being changed into something to protect XenForo and as a result make things less favorable to myself.

But as an example since you asked, XenForo could add a clause stating you only have permission to use the software for 1 year, a which point a renewal is needed to continue using the software, forcing you to purchase further extensions rather than being optional.

I'm not saying anything like that is going to or will happen. But it could if changes have to be made to prevent 3rd hand sales.

The ruling reads as very "end user" friendly. The reality is it means things people took for granted and software devs provided as "standard" now become forced options of limiting the end users privileges in order to protect the dev and maintain their income.

 

[Jake Bunce]

Say, 1) and 3). Neither of which must be a criteria for transfer eligibility according to EU law.

It is not possible to fail both 1 and 3 because you can't transfer a license before 4 months. What is your license number? I will check your eligibility.

 

[Sheldon]

Jake, are you saying you have access to license numbers and the associated customer data?

All I saw him say was he would check your eligibility.

 

[Jake Bunce]

Jake, are you saying you have access to license numbers and the associated customer data?

Yes. I can lookup licenses and do transfers. So you are welcome to contact me if you need to check your license or transfer ownership.

 

[Jake Bunce]

Can you also lookup a licensee's information, such as contact name and address?

Yep.