Reactivation fee
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AnthonyCea
Well-known member
Well, seems to me that more than one customer is upset about the various issues, so that should ring a few bells with management.
Reeve of Shinra
Well-known member
I was rather stupid about it and bought extra licenses I probably didn't need right away to help support the company. I didn't know about the re-activation fee thing. Seems a bit high to me.
edit to add: this didn't say anything about reactivation fees.
Support and Updates
A license comes with 12 months of updates and ticket support. 12-month update and support extensions will be purchasable for $40.
As an additional incentive to adopt early, licenses bought during the beta period will have 12 months of updates and support starting from the date when XenForo 1.0 is released as a stable and supported version.
Reeve of Shinra
Well-known member
Question to the Staff:
Can someone summarize the Q & A's on this and make a sticky out of it in a locked thread?
Can someone summarize the Q & A's on this and make a sticky out of it in a locked thread?
Forsaken
Well-known member
Only replying to this post.My mention of vbulletin and IPB was in reply to someone else who was talking about different pricing structures that work, so that is why the were mentioned, so please dont tell me what I should and shouldnt be bringin up.
Suggesting have been put forward, $40 a year renewal without the penalty. No ones been insulting to anyone as far as I can see and all criticism has been constructive. Going back to the mention of other forum software, which you believe comparrisons shouldnt be made - Its the same business, and if their pricing business model works, I can see every reason for it to be brought up.
Now no offence, but please get off your high horse and stop preaching to me about what I should and shouldnt write and what comparisons I should or shouldnt use. Im a customer and will voice my concerns. Its upto Xenforo if they want to listen. If they dont, then I'll move on. Simples.
Did I say -not- to bring them up? I merely mentioned there was no point in doing so. A startup cannot follow the same licensing and renewal structure as a widely used system in the same niche; they need renewals to stay afloat, or else they'll fail in 5 years (Usual lifespan for a startup company that fails).
The suggestions put forth do not take into account that XenForo is a startup, and there must be a way for them to assure renewals. Your renewing is still in your hands, and you are given a -very- fair 9 month window to renew without penalty; choosing to do so is up to you, but for all I care you can stay with the BETA, and be done with it
.There is no high horse; complaining serves no point, and all this thread has been is complaining. A new thread, with a set goal of putting forth ideas and suggestions for a fair model that customers agree with has much more use then a thread with mostly complaining and maybe a few suggestions which were based off the assumption that their suggestion would work for a startup.
The only renewal model will change is if you appeal to Ashley, and doing so in this thread is serving no point (Quite honestly, I avoid it myself, I'm sure Ashley doesn't want to read it either). Yes, you're unhappy with the licensing structure; you were aware of it in the beginning (Or you should have been), so you're either stuck with your mistake (If thats how you view it
) or you can make the best of it and try to get changes made by taking an active role int he matter, which does not include outright complaining.Again, it is only a suggestion, you can take it or leave it. Ashley is known for being fair and helpful, and treating him as such is far more likely to bring about a change.
DaveL
Well-known member
When IPB started up it was free. They then introduced payment with 6 monthly renewals at $25. They are still in business.
Vbulletin introduced yearly renewals at $30. They are still in business.
Saying the Xenforo has to have the penalty charge to force people into renewing as its a new company dosent wash with me. Take the two examples above. They started out without penalty fees and grew from strength to strength.
Complaining does serve a point. If no-one ever complained, things wouldnt improve. I havent said anything bad about Ashley, in fact I havent even mentioned him in this thread. Im sure he is a fair chap and look forward to seeing his further input into this thread.
Vbulletin introduced yearly renewals at $30. They are still in business.
Saying the Xenforo has to have the penalty charge to force people into renewing as its a new company dosent wash with me. Take the two examples above. They started out without penalty fees and grew from strength to strength.
Complaining does serve a point. If no-one ever complained, things wouldnt improve. I havent said anything bad about Ashley, in fact I havent even mentioned him in this thread. Im sure he is a fair chap and look forward to seeing his further input into this thread.
I'm not familiar with vBulletin. How long ago did they introduce their license renewal fee? What would it be equivalent to today taking into account inflation?
DaveL
Well-known member
When I first got vbulletin back in late 2006, once you purchased the licence you paid a yearly renewal of $30 with no penalty. This then changed in 2009? when IB took over and up'd the prices and introduced the penalty charge.
IPB charge $149 for their board and then $25 for 6 months support. No penalty charges.
IPB charge $149 for their board and then $25 for 6 months support. No penalty charges.
whynot
Well-known member
That was a long time ago. It's gone.
It would be equivalent to XF's renewal fee,$40.
Their penalty was $20 for late renewals.
So in summary then were talking about the difference between a $20 late renewal charge and a $40 late renewal charge?
DaveL
Well-known member
When I was a vbulletin customer under Jelsoft, there was never any late payment penalty. You paid $30 to renew as and when you wanted.
2009 when IB took over they increased the prices and introduced the late payment. Customers wernt happy and not long later the new payment method was launched.
AnthonyCea
Well-known member
Forsaken, management here are big boys, they don't need you to defend them when customers are upset, to go on and tell paying customers not to complain is the same fiasco that happened on the vB forums when posts were being moved to private forums out of the public view and members who were also paying customers (the boss in most businesses) were being banned by Roy Morgan.
PS: Start another thread? Why, thank God you are not a mod here !!!
PPS: Quote from your user profile "Spent most of the day away from XenForo; come back, most posts are as useless as always".
Come on man, if that is the way you think you have a lot of nerve even posting telling paying customers not to complain.
PS: Start another thread? Why, thank God you are not a mod here !!!
PPS: Quote from your user profile "Spent most of the day away from XenForo; come back, most posts are as useless as always".
Come on man, if that is the way you think you have a lot of nerve even posting telling paying customers not to complain.
whynot
Well-known member
Looking at the whole thread: NO.
Talking about IPS' continuous no penalty renewals,VB's earlier no penalty renewals, VB's latter penalties, and XF's double penalties.
Forsaken
Well-known member
I never defended them? I offered a suggestion to the people who clearly didn't understand the license/renewal model for a way to appeal to Ashley (Who is in charge of business).
Complaining gets no one nowhere, it just makes people realize you're unhappy with the current situation (Which you are), but without an offered alternative that is logical for both parties, nothing will change. By creating a new thread you can have a clean slate (This one is far past being useful), and work to find a middle ground. This means you do not complain in the thread (Or at least not without offering an alternative).
We get people are unhappy (We being the customers who understood/read the license, and find it to be perfectly fine), however it is either because: a) they didn't read the license, b) didn't understand the license, c) are complaining knowing perfectly well what the license entailed yet they complain anyways, d) use to a different licensing structure which they are more fond of, but aren't going to realize this isn't x or y solution, but is XenForo, or e) feel they are being forced to renew when you have 21 months between renewals without a penalty (Which it isn't).
a) was their own fault for not reading the license; they made a mistake, and they're now complaining because they did so when all information was there.
b) they should have asked questions before buying; there was a 24 hour window in which they could have asked questions.
c) they have no reason to complain; they were aware of the license and renewal model, and are just wasting peoples time. If you do not agree with a license, you do not pay for the product, as simple as that.
d) x or y solutions are already existing companies; they have a large client base, and have income that covers their overhead. A startup has no income except for their initial sale originally, and then when there is a renewal; people not renewing = less money to cover their overhead = business fails.
e) you are not forced to renew; you are giving the option to renew within 9 months after expiration, and then the renewal cost changes. This is common in many other software solutions, its just been adapted to forum software. It is a perfectly legitimate licensing and renewal model, and it has been proven to help startup solutions. If you do not wish to renew, you do not have to do so, but that is your choice, and there is no coercion.
ps. read my reason for starting a new thread and see if there is no logic behind it. This thread stopped serving a point a while back.
pss. that status is from several weeks ago when there was abundant trolling. Next time before commenting, check the timestamp.
AnthonyCea
Well-known member
Thanks but your posts are those with little value to the rest of us Forsaken.
DaveL
Well-known member
Just going to pick up on a few points before I hit the sack. Plus ive already answered you numerous times regarding the complaining etc. Im a paying customer and have every right to aire my concerns in a constructive way. Feedback, complaint, call it what you will! Your quotes in italics.
x or y solutions are already existing companies; they have a large client base, and have income that covers their overhead. A startup has no income except for their initial sale originally
You keep going on about start up companies. VB and IPB were both start up companies and didnt charge people a penalty for not renewing and did great out of it! Its probably their pricing structure that helped them get such a large client base.
If you do not wish to renew, you do not have to do so, but that is your choice, and there is no coercion.
Well you do really otherwise you have to pay an $80 penalty.
Ps - I did understand the renewal model before I purchased. Ive already said numerous times I purchased cheap in the sale so I can sell on depending how things go. Ive got nothing to lose at all.
x or y solutions are already existing companies; they have a large client base, and have income that covers their overhead. A startup has no income except for their initial sale originally
You keep going on about start up companies. VB and IPB were both start up companies and didnt charge people a penalty for not renewing and did great out of it! Its probably their pricing structure that helped them get such a large client base.
If you do not wish to renew, you do not have to do so, but that is your choice, and there is no coercion.
Well you do really otherwise you have to pay an $80 penalty.
Ps - I did understand the renewal model before I purchased. Ive already said numerous times I purchased cheap in the sale so I can sell on depending how things go. Ive got nothing to lose at all.
Why? Because he tries to be reasonable and actually makes arguments instead of posting “It’s different from what I’m used to, change it!”? Because he doesn’t agree with you? Because he doesn’t join you collective whining? Because he read the terms before he bought (/didn’t buy despite disagreeing with the terms)?
AnthonyCea
Well-known member
No, because he is a 23 year old kid who is attempting to speak for management here and also is in wanna be mod mode.
Most of us here are forum administrators for years and do not need to be instructed on proper forum protocol by kids.
Most of us here are forum administrators for years and do not need to be instructed on proper forum protocol by kids.
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