Why bother when they could just buy a $100 license like the rest of us and look at the code that way?
Internet Brands claims against XenForo
- Thread starter Jarod
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Decent60
Well-known member
Because throwing up a lawsuit can cause downtime and potentially hurt Xenforo's reputation. However, seeing as they are going a head with the sales, then it's not going to happen.
If they have an injunction put up to stop sales, they could drag out the findings/copy the material to have their developers work on it while their lawyers postpone the trial or drag it on for months.
If they have an injunction put up to stop sales, they could drag out the findings/copy the material to have their developers work on it while their lawyers postpone the trial or drag it on for months.
Decent60
Well-known member
I never said copying the code, I said the "improved ideas". Like you posted before, two different lines of coding doing the same thing doesn't mean it was copied.
Gill
Member
I've just posted on their forums - my username there is zanack. I'm appalled at this. To have publicised and then encouraged debate when claiming they have a legal case undermines any serious claim I believe. I suspect they would have a hard time proving anything (I'm very pushed for time at the moment so have only skim read and not taken in details) but this appears to be done in desperation. I hope the sale goes ahead tomorrow ... I have 3 licenses to buy!!
Hannah_M
Active member
Because xenForo isn't as childish as IB is. All xenForo has to do is release the product and all will be proven. The code itself will be the defendant, witness, lawyer and judge of the truth.
Kim
Well-known member
Even if they did, very few would buy it I am sure, an act so lacking in morality would have it's own downfall.
Gravity
Member
Everyone please calm down.
If you were moderating your own communities, you'd expect civility and etiquette to remain. Such as you should expect here.
Legal proceedings mean that Xenforo Ltd cannot speak freely anymore because everything can be used as evidence. They'll need legal advice and without that, they'll have to be very careful about any statements. They cannot deny or acknowledge the law suit in the kind of way you might discuss a new feature; the language has to be carefully constructed.
The kind of intimate and quick-fire relationship you have had with Xenforo cannot be extended to how they handle a law suit, so you must change your expectations in that regard. To some degree, we will be kept in the dark, and that's the way it'll have to be.
In terms of the legal proceedings, and its merits, whilst I know a fair bit about EU competitive law, no-one can say for sure whether IB have a strong case or not. It's not fruitful to speculate, but might be fun.
Whether to buy
All you can do is make a decision based on your own risk tolerance for buying with some uncertainty looming.
For me $100 is a small risk, so I'll still be buying at launch.
Even if development stalls for some time, the Beta version is still better than alternatives I have for my new community.
In terms of legal strategy
Note that in economic terms, uncertainty is a weapon.
If IB had a very strong legal case, on which they were confident, the alternative legal strategy would be to wait until xenforo had made a reasonable amount of money, then sue them, so IB could actually get money out of them.
On the other hand, they might not want vBulletin sales to be impacted in the short-term, so they might think that using uncertainty might swing decisions in their favour.
That's just two short points. There are many other factors which we don't understand.
On abandoning vBulletin
What Shelley and others are doing is a good strategy. The developer community around vBulletin is measurably valuable and by showing solidarity with xenforo, the decision-makers at IB will be given another factor to balance in their assessment of how to proceed, and for how long. Thus, IB will need to factor in the degradation of their community as a negative when looking at the overall merits of pursuing the case.
If you were moderating your own communities, you'd expect civility and etiquette to remain. Such as you should expect here.
Legal proceedings mean that Xenforo Ltd cannot speak freely anymore because everything can be used as evidence. They'll need legal advice and without that, they'll have to be very careful about any statements. They cannot deny or acknowledge the law suit in the kind of way you might discuss a new feature; the language has to be carefully constructed.
The kind of intimate and quick-fire relationship you have had with Xenforo cannot be extended to how they handle a law suit, so you must change your expectations in that regard. To some degree, we will be kept in the dark, and that's the way it'll have to be.
In terms of the legal proceedings, and its merits, whilst I know a fair bit about EU competitive law, no-one can say for sure whether IB have a strong case or not. It's not fruitful to speculate, but might be fun.
Whether to buy
All you can do is make a decision based on your own risk tolerance for buying with some uncertainty looming.
For me $100 is a small risk, so I'll still be buying at launch.
Even if development stalls for some time, the Beta version is still better than alternatives I have for my new community.
In terms of legal strategy
Note that in economic terms, uncertainty is a weapon.
If IB had a very strong legal case, on which they were confident, the alternative legal strategy would be to wait until xenforo had made a reasonable amount of money, then sue them, so IB could actually get money out of them.
On the other hand, they might not want vBulletin sales to be impacted in the short-term, so they might think that using uncertainty might swing decisions in their favour.
That's just two short points. There are many other factors which we don't understand.
On abandoning vBulletin
What Shelley and others are doing is a good strategy. The developer community around vBulletin is measurably valuable and by showing solidarity with xenforo, the decision-makers at IB will be given another factor to balance in their assessment of how to proceed, and for how long. Thus, IB will need to factor in the degradation of their community as a negative when looking at the overall merits of pursuing the case.
Sale will go on as planned
Decent60
Well-known member
Never said it was a smart idea, just saying that that episode of Law and Order reminded me of that (Company A released their new line of product shortly after the Company B was found not guilty).
Lycaon
Well-known member
I think you may have it all wrong.
Why would they spend all that time and money to get their grubby little hands on the code when they can spend 5 minutes and $100 tomorrow by buying it?
Ingenious
Well-known member
The really long, rambling "Will you switch to xenForo" thread over on the official vB site was only viewable by licenced vB owners (ie. not guests) whereas their "We're suing xF" thread is a main announcement. This certainly gives xF some major coverage, and as the saying goes, any publicity is good publicity. In fact, it's like a huge advert for xF which money cannot buy! And for those here who are not vB licence owners, the discussion thread on vB about this is currently up to page 25 and 90% negative about Internet Brands.
This VERY interesting link was also posted there:
http://thestreetsweeper.org/undersurveillance.html?i=1109
This VERY interesting link was also posted there:
http://thestreetsweeper.org/undersurveillance.html?i=1109
Decent60
Well-known member
Hannah_M
Active member
If your theory is correct, IB have once again ignored the human element. Feelings and emotions plays just as much a role in this as features does
Hannah_M
Active member
Did anyone read this? - http://mattmecham.tumblr.com/post/1243676816/how-to-lose-friends-and-alienate-people
If matt failed as a developers [which he won't] he could fall back on writing
If matt failed as a developers [which he won't] he could fall back on writing
ChrisR
Active member
Matt Mecham posted something cool
http://mattmecham.tumblr.com/post/1243676816/how-to-lose-friends-and-alienate-people
http://mattmecham.tumblr.com/post/1243676816/how-to-lose-friends-and-alienate-people
Hannah_M
Active member
I win.Matt Mecham posted something cool
http://mattmecham.tumblr.com/post/1243676816/how-to-lose-friends-and-alienate-people
djr
New member
Sorry, but I must strongly disagree. In fact, these specific actions withhold me from buying multiple xenforo licenses (which I fully intended), because these same people who were so eager to withdraw their mods/graphic packs from vb.org may be withdrawing their xenforo releases at will if any disputable or unforeseen action is done by the xenforo team.
These unjustified actions by so called 'supporters' are directed at the wrong people (fellow forum admins) and do nothing to harm Internet Brands. For every leaving dev/designer another one steps in. As Paul M. stated: development of mods and/or releases of graphic sets have not slowed down in any measurable way at vB.org. You're just hurting and disrespecting the wrong people.
As for me: I will never ever consider hiring (if they are/were for hire) and/or using releases from Floris, Shelley, entertainer or any other developer/designer who've withdrawn their releases from vB.org, nor will I ever recommend their services to my network (in fact, quite the opposite). They are no better than IB for taking these actions against their fellow peers and it is reflecting very badly on xenforo imho.
ChrisR
Active member
oh well.
Lycaon
Well-known member
I do agree with you on that but I wasn't talking about that post
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