Internet Brands claims against XenForo

[Shanj]

Thanks Shanj. Who posted this over there?

me

 

[TNCclubman]

can vbulletin claim that since it was first posted on their site, they own copyright of shans post?

 

[Peggy]

can vbulletin claim that since it was first posted on their site, they own copyright of shans post?

I doubt it. She can post anything she wants to, anywhere she wants to.

 

[Sagar]

VBulletin can do anything, question is whether it makes sense

can vbulletin claim that since it was first posted on their site, they own copyright of shans post?

 

[Floris]

can vbulletin claim that since it was first posted on their site, they own copyright of shans post?

The poster is the author of the post and while the post becomes vBulletin's property (they can archive it, edit it, make it part of the sale to another owner, etc) - it's nowhere stipulated that posting on vBcom becomes exclusive right to IB/vB - your own work is free to be published wherever you want.

 

[Slavik]

For those interested.

PD63 is relevent for IP claims in the UK, here is the official site regarding such claims.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/parts/part63.htm

 

[TheLaw]

Here's my take... no offense, but the reason I wrote my blog post was to help deal with what I believe is not correct factual information.

There is NO court case against XF.​

​

​

Why? Because you think there isn't one?​

​

​

1. The whole thing has to be assessed under UK law.​

The XF developers are UK residents under UK law.​

They were employed by Jelsoft (VBulletin) under UK law.​

They have set up XF under UK law.​

​

​

And what happens if they signed an employment agreement stating that all disputes shall be governed under US law?​

​

2. Under UK law the skills and information in an employee's head belongs to them, after they leave the employ of a company.

​

Work belongs to the employer while someone works for them.​

​

​

Who says that this is what the lawsuit is about? This is also not true if the information in their head is copyrighted. Just because someone may have a photographic memory doesn't mean they own the rights to the book they sold.​

​

​

2A. When an employee leaves that employment they may be required to sign a non-competition contract. This can only last for one year.​

That is, UK law supports the right of a worker to use their skills to work.​

A non-competition contract can only cover a "reasonable period" which is normally taken as one year.​

​

​

See above regarding choice of law and the fact that "normally" is not an exact number.​

​

​

3. Xenforo website did not go live for slightly more than one year after their developers left IB (jelsoft/ Vbulletin).​

That fits with a standard one year non-competition contract.​

After that the XF developers were free to use their skills as they wished.​

​

​

What if the work commenced before the one year period?​

​

​

4. A UK court case cannot have been "filed" as IB has claimed.​

A UK court case is public information unless subject to a special gagging order such as in cases of child abuse or terrorism. As public information its outline details are publicly available.​

That means there would be an official listing with the XF and IB/ Jelsoft name on it. There is none.​

​

​

How long has it been since IB actually filed case and, in the UK, do such filings appear instantly?​

​

​

4A. This is also borne out by the way the IB / Jelsoft announcement merely REQUESTS the XF team not to publish XF.​

If there were a proper court case starting they would have an injunction to block XF from doing business. That would have a reference number.​

Or they would have a case number and would obviously quote it to strengthen their statement - make it look legal.​

No such numbers have been stated or leaked.​

​

​

"Proper?" Not true. Again, see my blog post that covers this entire issue.​

​

​

5. The most that can have happened is that IB has perhaps MADE APPLICATION to file a case.​

Their application will be assessed by the UK legal authorities to see if it meets basic legal standards.​

This takes weeks, for a complex case, months or years.​

​

​

I don't know the process but filing is setting the wheels in motion. The fact that you aren't yet at stage 4 isn't relevant.​

​

​

6. On the above points such an application does not meet legal requirements.​

There will be no case.​

​

​

Based upon what legal theory?​

​

None of my answers mean that the entire case isn't just posturing and an attempt to put a hurdle in front of the Xenforo launch without a winning argument. I'm just saying that this information is erroneous.​

 

[Marv]

Hey mod´s, tell the big 3 they should take a break. Guess they haven´t slept all night.. We´re still here when they´ll come back

 

[CurveGotti]

IB is obviously seriously scared.

Very unlikely to ever get to court. No judge could rule on it - too specialised.
Anyway KMA are too savvy to have copied VB code. It's obvious from many many statements that XF is different - it has been said that coders wanting to do mods will have to learn a whole new way of designing.
What similarities there are will be basic unavoidable ones just because both are forums - having 'threads' for example. A comparison with other leading boards will easily establish that.

What a dirty cowardly company IB is.

I agree there is no way that a judge could make an educated decision on this, unless of course they've been running forums for a while on the side.

Almost every feature I have seen on XF is on many other types of software and XF has just bundled together the best of them, in their own way to make a much better UI.

Edit In Fact No need to even say that. :-}~

 

[Peggy]

oh boy......

 

[SchmitzIT]

Just because of this, I'll buy two XF licenses instead of 1 as I initially planned. I'll also instantly replace one of my vB boards with XF the minute a vB4 converter is available.

If I find someone willing to buy the vB4 Suite license from me at half price of what I paid, I'll use that money to buy another XF license. Bah. Spoilsports at IB. If they are that afraid of XF, they ought to improve the quality of their product instead of referring to bullying.

 

[Carlos]

oh boy......

Ya know, when I saw the whole VB4 PR nightmare, I thought that was the worst iB could do. Now? THIS is worse.

I'm still trying to decide WHICH one is worse, the whole VB4 sale/VB4 coding nightmare, or the recent courtbattle [if there is one!]!!!!

 

[Shanj]

I can write what I like where I like as long as I have not entered a contract which hands over my copyright.
(I'm in the business of professional content.)

 

[Vilandra]

You know, I'm not in marketing, but I could do better at customer relations than the people IB is paying to do it.

 

[Paul B]

Anyone discussing the details of the case are making assumptions and speculating.

No-one except the parties involved know the facts.

Still, that hasn't stopped people for the last 68 pages so I doubt it will now.

 

[TheLaw]

Anyone discussing the details of the case are making assumptions and speculating.

No-one except the parties involved know the facts.

Still, that hasn't stopped people for the last 68 pages so I doubt it will now.

First really good post I've seen in a while. Gotta leave and do some real work. See ya guys again soon...

 

[Slavik]

Anyone discussing the details of the case are making assumptions and speculating.

No-one except the parties involved know the facts.

Still, that hasn't stopped people for the last 68 pages so I doubt it will now.

True but its fun to guess!

 

[Peggy]

First really good post I've seen in a while. Gotta leave and do some real work. See ya guys again soon...

Don't be gone long!

 

[Mikey]

Has this thread not served it's purpose? There's only so much that can be said along the lines of "Oh god what did IB do now?" and "We love XenForo"

 

[Ruven]

All the XenForo community needs right now is for Kier/Mike/Ash to come make an announcement that alleviates some of the concerns brought up by IB's press release.

1. XenForo should do its best to dispel any rumors and doubt by addressing these things ASAP.
2. Have they been served with an actual lawsuit, or is this mere posturing/threatening by IB?
3. Tell us why the Beta release is delayed.
4. Let us know when its going on sale, it not going on sale as scheduled only adds to the specter of doubt that has been cast by the IB announcement.
5. Show the Admin Demo during the Beta sale so people can make a more informed decision and not compare XenForo's early sell to vB4's presale. (just semantics imo)
6. Make the "unforeseen circumstances" be related to something other than the IB announcement.