California Case Update

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Shamil said:
The pages are photocopied into the system. The files are not delivered electronically, I believe, hence why everything is photocopied. Additionally, for them to provide any proof it would have to be sanctioned of paper first, I think.
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What I was referring to was the...
Pyro said:
There's gotta be some evidence in there *somewhere*, right?
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... part of the quote.

This sums it all up for me really. I have not commented on anything substantial/factual in all these discussions over the internet about the lawsuit. Because, quite frankly I do not know anything factual about the whole situation and I do not know anything about court cases, so what is there to say? The only wish I wholeheartedly have is that Mike and Kier and Ashley get through this and that after this appalling/shameful lawsuit they will never ever hear of IB again. (I'm sure that after pulling off something like this (after largely destroying the vBulletin brand and community to begin with), IB will never ever hear from me (and my clients) again, that's a fact. If all the accusations are untrue/unfounded (which I presume), then I am totally convinced that MKA/XenForo Ltd and XenForo as a product and the supporting community will come out even stronger then they already are. I have all the trust for the very bright future of XenForo, that's why I bought 2 licenses and I can not wait to upgrade my platforms. My the force be with us... :).
 
SilverCircle said:
Well, yes, sort of.

A good framework alone doesn't produce anything on its own. You still need skilled and experienced developers to get good results and this is very obviously the case here.
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I know, that's why I said "not to take anything away from the awesome job Mike and Kier have done..." :)

SilverCircle said:
Combine good developers with good tools, throw in some high level of dedication and expect better (and faster) results than good developers with the same level of dedication alone would be able to produce.
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Precisely! That is all I was saying, combine a great framework with two Awesome Developers and yes of course it is perfectly possible, perfectly provable, and perfectly achieved in the case of Xenforo!
 
ManagerJosh said:
Conflict of interest. The judge would have to recuse himself therefore it's wishful thinking at best.
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It's not like anyone would know anyways.. unless IB can prove he does own a license.

otherwise no one will know unless for once there is a non corrupt judge, who would state they can't take part in this case.
 
Judge Manuel L Real is ruling the case, he has a fascinating history. However, we must not forget that IB have requested a jury to be present.
 
Maybe it's just me, but I found it somewhat ironic, that the "whois" screen shot scan that I.B. included in their court filing, shows additional information promoting the important reasons for getting whoisguard on your domain and some of the nasty things that can happen if you fail to do so. Way to go I.B.! Nothing like undermining the credibility of your own argument! It seems to me that I.B.'s lawyers just provided part of what XF's response can be, to what is essentially a meaningless and irrelevant point anyway. I'll say this, it will be hard for I.B.'s lawyers to turn around and attempt to dismiss their own filing as inaccurate or irrelevant.

Anyone else notice that in the passage where it mentions Ray Morgan being a witness, that the filing describes him as the former General Manager of vBulletin and it seems to also indicate that he is still an employee of the company. It's worded rather vaguely, but the way I read it, it appears he's still employed by I.B. in some way shape or form. I thought the story was that he left to go build a house in Costa Rica or somewhere...The filing seems to indicate he's a resident of California and possibly still an employee as well.

Also, I wonder if I.B. got Floris' permission to take screen shots of his blog and then also make copies of it and distribute them. If they didn't, that in itself, probably constitutes copyright infringement. Good to see I.B. include that in their court filing. Floris' might just have a claim to make. ;)

All of these little mistakes that I.B. keep making, like filing their case incorrectly etc. are going to be important when they have an actual hearing. Judge's tend to have very low tolerance levels for incompetent lawyering, and also when witnesses start stating pure speculation as fact.

To me, from the very beginning, this looked and smelled like what it exactly is and that's nothing more than a nuisance case aimed at disrupting XF's efforts to get off the ground. The outcome of this case -assuming it ever gets to trial- might just be that I.B. will be paying XF compensation for damages as well as for legal fees incurred. ;)

-Chris
 
Chris said:
Maybe it's just me, but I found it somewhat ironic, that the "whois" screen shot scan that I.B. included in their court filing, shows additional information promoting the important reasons for getting whoisguard on your domain and some of the nasty things that can happen if you fail to do so. Way to go I.B.! Nothing like undermining the credibility of your own argument! It seems to me that I.B.'s lawyers just provided part of what XF's response can be, to what is essentially a meaningless and irrelevant point anyway.

Anyone else notice that in the passage where it mentions Ray Morgan being a witness, that the filing describes him as the former General Manager of vBulletin and it seems to also indicate that he is still an employee of the company. It's worded rather vaguely, but the way I read it, it appears he's still employed by I.B. in some way shape or form. I thought the story was that he left to go build a house in Costa Rica or somewhere...The filing seems to indicate he's a resident of California and possibly still an employee as well.

Also, I wonder if I.B. got Floris' permission to take screen shots of his blog and then also make copies of it and distribute them. If they didn't, that in itself, probably constitutes copyright infringement. Good to see I.B. include that in their court filing. Floris' might just have a claim to make. ;)

All of these little mistakes that I.B. keep making, like filing their case incorrectly etc. are going to be important when they have an actual hearing. Judge's tend to have very low tolerance level for incompetent lawyering, and also when witnesses start stating pure speculation as fact.

To me, from the very beginning, this looked and smelled like what it exactly is and that's nothing more than a nuisance case aimed at disrupting XF's efforts to get off the ground. The outcome of this case -assuming it ever gets to trial- might just be that I.B. will be paying XF compensation for damages as well as for legal fees incurred. ;)

-Chris
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I read it as he still is the GM of vBulletin. I thought I was the only one though, so I didn't post it. Glad to see I wasn't going mad. I think Ray is still in LA. As far as I can see, he is still employed by Internet Brands.
 
Chris said:
Also, I wonder if I.B. got Floris' permission to take screen shots of his blog and then also make copies of it and distribute them. If they didn't, that in itself, probably constitutes copyright infringement. Good to see I.B. include that in their court filing. Floris' might just have a claim to make. ;)
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I suspect there's an exception when its used as evidence in a court case.
 
Jamie said:
Ray Morgan does not work for vB at this time, at least not according to him.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/raylmorgan

Jamie
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I don't think he still works for them either.

But that's not what B. Lynn Walsh declares and states in her court filing...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1545603/pdf/031111479681.pdf

Per page 3 of her court declaration...

<snip>Mr. Morgan is and was the General Manager of the vBulletin business team, and so was often intimately involved in the matters giving rise to this dispute. All of these gentleman live and work in Southern California. </snip>

Ms. Walsh, also seems to argue in the same document, that XF has a physical presence in Southern California, merely based on the fact that they (XF) employed a third party domain registrar who has a physical presence there. Additionally, she makes mention of XF having a technical and administrative contact phone numbers with a California area code of 661. But I believe what she is actually referring to, either knowingly or unknowingly, is actually the domain registrar's contact information. And I can't see how XF using a third party, domain registrar service located in California, somehow places the company itself physically there too - that's a stretch.

Meanwhile, I.B. submits copies of the "Jelsoft" employment contracts involved as evidence, which clearly state that Jelsoft's address as being in the U.K., And I would assume that's also where they were signed. I would think that would carry a lot more weight in a jurisdictional argument about where this case should be tried.

I'm sure XF's lawyers are making notes of all these little mistakes for use in court. As they start adding up, hopefully they will cause the judge to start to look unfavourably on I.B.'s case.

My best guess, is that this case will not be tried in California and more likely if at all, in the U.K.

-Chris
 
Well if Ms Welsh is their general counsel and she can't seem to tell the truth when it comes to Ray Morgan or even the half-truths she is trying to spin with the Whois lookup, then me thinks IB needs better counsel. (not that I want them to have it, I rather like seeing them go down slowly in flames with these mistakes and mis-trips.. It's like watching the release of their flag ship vB 4.0 Suite all over again)

Jamie
 
Jamie said:
Well if Ms Welsh is their general counsel and she can't seem to tell the truth when it comes to Ray Morgan or even the half-truths she is trying to spin with the Whois lookup, then me thinks IB needs better counsel. (not that I want them to have it, I rather like seeing them go down slowly in flames with these mistakes and mis-trips.. It's like watching the release of their flag ship vB 4.0 Suite all over again)

Jamie
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She is probably just stating what people have told her.
I guess when you make (or worth) $573,600.00* [2009] you believe anything.
She will probably move on to another corporation making even more money.

*Source: http://people.forbes.com/profile/b-lynn-walsh-j-d-/44862
 
Shamil said:
If this is incorrect, this is a penalty under perjury.
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I was thinking the same thing, but didn't know if it didn't exactly apply to the lawyers involved. I know you can be sanctioned or be up to lose your license, but I didn't know if they called it perjury when it's coming from one of the lawyers..

Either way, it's bad for them and good for us. :)

Jamie
 
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