August Update discussion thread.

[jadmperry]

@jadmperry, one difference about all those names you listed at vB as opposed to here, they are paid employees of the company and as such logic would dictate they would have more official knowledge of the processes/company and can speak for them in an official capacity.

On a side note, vB5's release will be a watershed moment for IB. I, personally, cannot wait to watch it all unfold.

Thanks for at least a thoughtful comment. However, I would refute your point on a few bases:

1. The often contradictory statements made by paid vB employees there.
2. Their incessant disclaimers of "official" knowledge or ability to promise anything (completely aside from the disclaimer of "official" reliance on previous employees statements).
3. The relatively smaller level of communication levels between the staff their and the staff here.
4. Paid does not equate to knowledge or truth spoken. Actually, given the paid status, I would argue that the folks at vB have a vested interest in spouting the company line. If you are not paid and still do the work, I would argue you have a greater motivation (or free from alternative motives motivation) to speak the truth. Not always the case, but I think there is something to this argument.

The above stated, I really don't rely on these arguments for my opinion that XF is far more truthful than vB. I only have to rely on my lousy experience with the vB "pre-sale", their failure to deliver as promised, their abandonment of development of the vB 4.x Suite product I paid for, and their disclaimer of any promises made in the past. Oh, lest I forget, the fact that their developers post once a year or less in their own forums.
My opinion (happily mine). But, I do appreciate the comment and your thoughts.

 

[jadmperry]

Well, well. Are you done with your off-topic, anti-vBulletin slant, so that we can finally get back to discussing the infamous August XF update?

If that was directed to me, no.

But feel free to discuss whatever you want. I think you will anyway, so this was probably not a necessary permission. (If you need my permission, though, I will be happy to deny you).

 

[MichaelDance]

If that was directed to me, no.

But feel free to discuss whatever you want. I think you will anyway, so this was probably not a necessary permission. (If you need my permission, though, I will be happy to deny you).

He started it lols

 

[Digital Doctor]

Well, well. Are you done with your off-topic, anti-vBulletin slant

FYI: He's probably not done.
To fully cover vBulletin's disastrous vB4 release we'd probably need a few thousand posts.
I'm here because vB4 was unusable and I had to look elsewhere.
It's hard to forget how bad vB4 is.

 

[Digital Doctor]

If it makes you feel better to cope with your XF misery

It does.
Thanks for understanding.

 

[jadmperry]

If it makes you feel better to cope with your XF misery, and if moderators allow for off-topic to continue, by all means, go ahead.

Thanks for your gracious permission. Discuss what you want, as far as I am concerned.

U Mad, Bro?

 

[ekine]

Why is the lawsuit in in the USA and not in England?
Since IB is an american company I would think that IB has a tremendous home advantage. What would happen if Xenforo ignores the american ruling of this matter since Xenforo is located in England and they keep offering their product out of England.

 

[Digital Doctor]

What would happen if Xenforo ignores the american ruling of this matter since Xenforo is located in England and they offer their product out of England.

They probably wouldn't.

 

[jadmperry]

Why is the lawsuit in in the USA and not in England?
Since IB is an american company I would think that IB has a tremendous home advantage. What would happen if Xenforo ignores the american ruling of this matter since Xenforo is located in England and they keep offering their product out of England.

In the entirely unlikely and implausible case that IB wins in the US Court, then any judgment could be (and almost certainly would be) filed in UK courts for execution (and, again, in the unlikely and implausible case that this happens) the UK court would likely order execution of the US judgment. This is how international cases play out under principles of comity.

 

[ekine]

In the entirely unlikely and implausible case that IB wins in the US Court, then any judgment could be (and almost certainly would be) filed in UK courts for execution (and, again, in the unlikely and implausible case that this happens) the UK court would likely order execution of the US judgment. This is how international cases play out under principles of comity.

But can't Xenforo say that they want this case to be ruled in Great Britain or by an international court. An american court might favour an american company.

 

[jadmperry]

But can't Xenforo say that they want this case to be ruled in Great Britain or by an international court. An american court might favour an american company.

Kind of, but not exactly...the concept is called "subject matter jurisdiction" (smj) and XF raised that point...but the US Court said that they have smj, so this argument did not work...my own opinion is that there are at least some issues where the US court does not have smj...but that would have to be finally answered on appeal (but only if they lose= if they win, it does not matter).

 

[petertdavis]

Well, this thread got quite useless over the past 24 hours or so.

Back to the original topic, I do have some specific questions for the developers.

1. Is Kier still actively developing Xenforo?
2. If Kier isn't still actively developing Xenforo, when did he stop?
3. Is Mike still actively developing Xenforo?
4. If Mike isn't still actively developing Xenforo, when did he stop?

That is all.

 

[Shelley]

1. Are you concerned that no matter how excellent your software is, the longer the community is divided and in an argumentative state your software will die because other customers will tire from this persisting bickering and move on? (to Mike Kier & Ashley).
2. You built up an excellent reputation when you made the initial release of xenforo are there any concerns on your part that it's increasingly gaining a reputation as being dead in the water? (to Mike, Kier & Ashley)
3. How do you propose to rectify the issue of a divided community if/when you return? It takes years to build up a good solid reputation, takes a few months to destroy all that hard work. (to Mike, Ashley & Kier)

 

[Sadik B]

Hi Jake,

Thanks for compiling the questions and submitting them. I really appreciate your and Slavik's efforts. I have one question which you can answer.

Will we get a post from either of K/A/M answering the submitted questions (or at least answering those they can ) or at least a post from you or Slavik, passing to us what they said?

Thank you.

Yup

Hi Slavik (or Jake)

When will the answers to the submitted questions be posted?

Thanks.

 

[TheBigK]

Question: Are KAM actually going to answer all the questions?

 

[Jake Bunce]

1. Are you concerned that no matter how excellent your software is, the longer the community is divided and in an argumentative state your software will die because other customers will tire from this persisting bickering and move on? (to Mike Kier & Ashley).

There really aren't very many people involved in the "bickering." They are just very vocal.

When will the answers to the submitted questions be posted?

Should be soon. Already got answers. Just awaiting drafting and posting.

 

[kprojects]

If things are looking dim in the case, would KAM consider open sourcing xenforo to the community before a court rules that they must cease distributing it?

 

[MichaelDance]

If things are looking dim in the case, would KAM consider open sourcing xenforo to the community before a court rules that they must cease distributing it?

nope since vb could steal all their hard work

 

[jadmperry]

If things are looking dim in the case, would KAM consider open sourcing xenforo to the community before a court rules that they must cease distributing it?

I understand that there was a conditional "if things are looking dim" prefacing the question, but nothing about the filings/evidence/arguments shows anything looking "dim" for XF- to date, all that has happened is a complaint was filed, then an amended complaint, IB failed to present ANY evidence supporting their claims (the HR employee denied that she asked for or was denied the return of any IB property, their IT/coding expert could not point to any copied code, for example), the judge dismissed several of IBs claims on legal grounds (seventh and eighth claims), and granted the defendants motion to dismiss claims against Ashley for want of jurisdiction , and the remainder of the case moves forward....because that is what cases do. However, if you look at the case and the evidence produced, there is little (really nothing) to indicate that IB has a chance in hell of winning. In US courts, trials are favored if there is any possible/conceivable set of facts that can prove a claim. So, it appears that this is what has happened...the judge has decided that in some universe, IF IB can prove its claims, it can win. Therefore, he will let a jury hear the case (at this point). However, after all of this, even if the jury screws up royally based on the evidence submitted thus far, the judge can then step in and say that after the presentation of evidence, judgment should be entered in favor of XF (judgment notwithstanding the verdict). Or he can rule that as a matter of law, the defendants must prevail.

I am not criticizing or attacking the poster of the question. I am just pointing out that any worries based on a "loss" in the lawsuit are farfetched. If you ask me my opinion, the only issue with the lawsuit is its enormous cost. That is the nature of lawsuits.

 

[kprojects]

jadmperry - Thanks for the info.. I hadn't been following it close enough to know those details..