Implemented The position of key buttons next to the breadcrumb

[Grover]

I am gonna to have a break from XenForo in the time to come. I just want to put the following in the limelight, because I feel it is or will become an issue when using XenForo. I think XenForo is (almost) perfect when it comes to the UI/UX, but I feel this could need some attention before XF becomes Gold.

I am talking about the position of key buttons like [Post New Thread] or [Search Threads and Posts] next to the breadcrumb. I believe this is a fundamentally wrong position and I will show why I think that.

[Search Threads and Posts]
First, there is this example about the [Search Threads and Posts]-button:
http://xenforo.com/community/thread...ics.2082/#post-30259

The [Search Threads and Posts] button there is more or less unrecognizable as a button that should be pressed to get more search options. It gets overlooked, very understandably, by endusers. To prevent it from being overlooked, it has to be put more into the viewpoint of the enduser. And that means... as close to the information-area as possible, there where the eye-focus of the enduser is. Meaning: in the center of the screen (right above the search input fields for example), not somewhere in a corner where it is not visible/clear/intuitive enough.

[Post New Thread]
The same problem occurs when users need to post a New Thread, as pointed out by Shanj in the following discussion where a visual example is posted in:
http://xenforo.com/community/thread...ead.2538/#post-41403

Needless to say that this can become obviously problematic. I don't know how XenForo displays multiple subforums underneath each other, but I could imagine it would be like this:

I believe a good UI should make it as easy/intuitive as possible to post a thread. Posting threads is THE BASIS of forums in the first place. That's why I find it a bit remarkable that XenForo puts the KEY button for this in a really counter-productive and non-intuitive position. A button with such an importance should be placed right there where the focus of the endusers-eye is, the moment he/she wants to post a new thread. And that is as near to the existing threadtitles as possible.

Those are my last constructive suggestions I will put out for a while (XF is near perfect in it's UI/UX for me). Hopefully M&K can share a part of this vision and re-think a bit the positions of those key buttons. I believe it will make XF better.

Keep up the good work (developers + community) and see you again after XF Gold's release!

Grover.

Please do [like] this first posting if you think it is a good feature suggestion for XenForo

 

[erich37]

One is the non-js direct loaded page for the frontpage popup, the other one is the full advanced stand alone page.

no, I am not talking about the frontpage popup.
I see 2 different stand-alone search-pages having different search-options.

Again, I do not want to criticize or insult anyone here, just trying on brainstorming.........

 

[Mark3121]

Have to admit I never noticed the reply button up there until this topic, my instinct is to hit the reply button to the bottom right of the post and delete the quote or scroll to the bottom to use quick reply.

For simple useability a reply with quote and normal reply at the right of each post is hard to beat, maybe make a tab to include the two or something.

 

[crossovernetwork]

Just thinking out loud I think having a button immediately to the right of the thread title would be more intuitive, and easier to find.



that said, I usually use the quick reply button.

 

[dutchbb]

Could be me, but even the old button immediately catched my eye the first time I visited this site. I admit it took a short time to get used to the placing though. But once you know it's there, it doesn't matter how many subforums are between it and the threads. You know it's there, it's just a bit further away than on most other forum software.

This is one of those discussions about what we are used to and what XF wants to do different. I think the placing is good. It's clean, it's visible and it's close to the scrollbar where your mouse pointer is. The breadcrumb is something that is looked at quite often, and the new button is more apparent.

For another example of the same placing, see WHT.

 

[Paul B]

Just thinking out loud I think having a button immediately to the right of the thread title would be more intuitive, and easier to find.

So the position of the button would change with every thread depending on the length of the title?

That's not good UI at all.

 

[crossovernetwork]

well, each thread title is a different length, I find my eye automatically goes to the end of the title.

 

[Grover]

Mockup of the Tab-solution

Go to http://xenforo.com/community/search/ and although the button is more visible now (because it indeed looks more like a button now and isn't lost in 'the overall design' like it was before), it is still positioned too far out of the context of the functionality of that screen. What is the benefit of putting it way up in the upper right corner next to the breadcrumb? It doesn't make much sense, does it? I mean, imagine the [Search] button in that same screen positioned all the way in the bottom right corner : that doesn't make much sense either. That's why it is positioned in the context of the search-fields: in other words: right below them. So why not position this [Search Threads and Posts] right above those search-fields? Then, you do not even have to change it's colour/design anymore... just make it a nice [Tab] or something! I just do not quite understand why there is a button stuffed away in the upper right corner to access a completely new Search screen: it is simply not intuitive enough. Not quite in line with the otherwise excellent intuitive UI of XenForo in my view.

Changing the colours is a nice touch and indeed a welcome improvement over how it was. But... it still remains a workaround for a problem that has everything to do with positioning, instead of colouring.

so where would you put that "Tab" you are suggesting ?

.... but I'm sticking with the placement until we have evaluated their visiblity with the updated style.

To make it more clear and let people see how my suggestion would 'look&feel' for the evaluation proces, I have constructed this mockup:



Just tell what you think would be better: this button in the upper right corner or a simple looking tab that brings you conveniently to this second search screen. IMHO it is obvious what the preferred implementation would be. The benefits are plenty compared to the current implementation:

1: We don't have to nitpick over the design of the button ... there is no button anymore!,
2: The button has been replaced by a [Tab], located in context (this is missing now!) with the user proces at hand, making it all much more intuitive,
3: The [Tabs] have the same consistent design as the User Profile [Tabs], making it instantly recognizable throughout the whole XF product. It's consistent/familiar to the enduser, whereas this newly designed button is unlike any other button available in XenForo, making it less consistent/familiar/intuitive.

How much more constructive arguments can I provide?

 

[erich37]

very nice mockup & great suggestion, Grover.
Looks very intuitive to me for the "Search"-feature.

Not sure if you are thinking of a similar design for the "Reply to Thread"-button ?

 

[Grover]

very nice mockup, Grover.
Looks very intuitive to me.

Thanks, appreciated! It really is my only big gripe with XenForo that these buttons are positioned wrongly next to the breadcrumb. Especially when it comes to the [Search Threads and Posts]-button, I foresee that my users just don't get it that one can click there to get to another search screen. In fact, I didn't even get it myself and then I know something is not quite right... in the otherwise fantastic UI/UX of this package. I would love to switch to XenForo (instead of vBulletin), so that's why issues like this are important for me to be solved. Search is one of the KEY functions in forum software in the end.

 

[dutchbb]

Yep on search I completely agree with the mockup above (nice one btw!)

 

[Grover]

Yep on search I completely agree with the mockup above (nice one btw!)

Thank you! I took me some time actually, but if Mike & Kier could evaluate it and maybe share that vision, it will have been worth it.

 

[erich37]

Thanks, appreciated! It really is my only big gripe with XenForo that these buttons are positioned wrongly next to the breadcrumb. Especially when it comes to the [Search Threads and Posts]-button, I foresee that my users just don't get it that one can click there to get to another search screen. In fact, I didn't even get it myself and then I know something is not quite right... in the otherwise fantastic UI/UX of this package. I would love to switch to XenForo (instead of vBulletin), so that's why issues like this are important for me to be solved. Search is one of the KEY functions in forum software in the end.

absolutely right !
Hope to see your suggestion implemented for the "Search".

 

[khurt]

I agree with tabbing the search page ... believe I saw something similar in another thread here. It's the way to go. Although for the "look" of it, maybe the help page could be mimicked (tabs along the left side).

About the "post new thread" button....

The reason for placing the button where it is *may* be more out of a desire to create an interface that looks different than vB rather than what might be the most intuitive place to put it. I can absolutely understand the desire to design this in a way that's different than vB and I can definitely appreciate the difficulty in doing that when vB has defined our expectations of what a normal forum interface should look like.

Doesn't IPB have the new thread button on the right side as well (but closer to the actual thread listing)?

that said, I usually use the quick reply button.

One of the great things about the quick reply is that it makes it unnecessary to have a big, flashy "post reply" button at all. The quick reply area essentially takes the place of the button and it's pretty hard to miss. So, I think the issue isn't so much about the "reply to thread" button as it is the "post new thread" button. Sooo, if you apply a quick reply type method for creating a new thread from the thread list, you minimize the importance of the button. It would no longer matter where the button is or even if it's included at all.

 

[erich37]

I also think the position of the "Post Reply" and "Post New Thread" buttons are fine as they are.
Just the Tabs for the "Search" would be a nice improvement.

The design of the buttons for "Post Reply" and "Post New Thread" are debateable and also changeable by ourselves.

 

[Enigma]

I agree with this as being more intuitive to use.

 

[dutchbb]

I was just now reading khurt's post and the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.... why even have the Reply to Thread button at all? There is a Reply link in every single post, there's the quick reply at the bottom... Everyone should be able to find these easily. That big button is nothing but unnecessary clutter, might even make it more confusing for newbies... I say drop the damn thing and stop worrying about it. XF doesn't need old methods, it needs innovation and daring decisions.

 

[erich37]

I was just now reading khurt's post and the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.... why even have the Reply to Thread button at all? There is a Reply link in every single post, there's the quick reply at the bottom... Everyone should be able to find these easily. That big button is nothing but unnecessary clutter, might even make it more confusing for newbies... I say drop the damn thing and stop worrying about it. XF doesn't need old methods, it needs innovation.

agree to this, but you still need a button for "Post New Thread".

 

[khurt]

I was just now reading khurt's post and the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.... why even have the Reply to Thread button at all? There is a Reply link in every single post, there's the quick reply at the bottom... Everyone should be able to find these easily. That big button is nothing but unnecessary clutter, might even make it more confusing for newbies... I say drop the damn thing and stop worrying about it. XF doesn't need old methods, it needs innovation and daring decisions.

There's a little bit of confusion about replying to a thread and starting a new thread.

• The point I'm making is that when replying to a thread, you don't need a "reply to thread" button because the quick reply makes it fairly obvious what to do if you want to reply.
• The issue Grover brought up is that it is difficult to find the post new thread button on the thread list (nothing to do with replying to a post).
• My suggestion to address this is to copy the quick reply functionality to the threadlist page. This would be used to quickly start a new thread:

It's a little bit of a crazy idea, but basically we'd be stealing something that works really well within the thread and using it outside the thread on the threadlist page. The idea here is that because this is so obvious to use, we wouldn't need the button on the threadlist page (or we could just leave it alone up there in the right corner). Just an idea. May not be the best way to go.

 

[dutchbb]

There's no confusion on my part, I understood your point. About the 'quick thread' I'm going to be honest and say it's too bulky and can't really replace the button since it's not visible at the top, but nonetheless a nice idea for a mod/add-on.

 

[dutchbb]

What about this ?



[Edit: changed call to action button to submit button, credit to Kier.]