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Paying Via PayPal - Warning

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DirtRider

Guest
#1
Just something I picked up and am not sure if others know about this. When paying via PayPal for a service or a product make sure this service or product is actually listed as such by the vendor. If you do a direct send funds payment to said vendor you have little or no option to be able to dispute the transaction if you would need to.
 

RickM

Well-known member
#3
Nothing new. If you buy non physical goods, or a service on PayPal you have no protection at all, and rightly so.

As a software vendor selling legit software, I have WAY too many *******s trying to do a chargeback claiming they didn't receive the 'goods'. Only after I reply to the dispute with proof of purchase and delivery of the DIGITAL GOODS do I then manually set the dispute to be sent to PayPal for resolution. They then rule that a refund cant be provided.

Some really big *******s then go and do a chargeback via their bank, forcing PayPal to take the money back from you.

If you use PayPal to buy digital goods, don't expect a refund - ever. It's completely at the sellers discretion. In other words, make sure you know exactly what you are buying. Don't turn around to the vendor after buying and say "Oh I assumed it would include XYZ. I want a refund" as the answer 99% of the time will be "Take a walk".
 
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DirtRider

Guest
#4
This appears to also be true for physical good if you respond to some type of advert. However it would seem that also purchasing off eBay seems to give you added protection. It does seem that there are now a lot of variations of eBay springing up that do not do this. If you then deal directly with the party advertising the good this is when it seem that it can all go wrong.

PayPal seem to view these direct transactions as just you giving that party x amount of cash because you like them :D
 

Nudaii

Well-known member
#5
FWIW if its for Digital Goods it doesn't matter as Digital Goods arnt covered for buyer protection.
3 times i have received poor quality "digital goods" (one video game and 2 software) all 3 times PayPal dispute ended in my favor, so they can refund in some cases.
 

Moshe1010

Well-known member
#8
Nothing new. If you buy non physical goods, or a service on PayPal you have no protection at all, and rightly so.

As a software vendor selling legit software, I have WAY too many *******s trying to do a chargeback claiming they didn't receive the 'goods'. Only after I reply to the dispute with proof of purchase and delivery of the DIGITAL GOODS do I then manually set the dispute to be sent to PayPal for resolution. They then rule that a refund cant be provided.

Some really big *******s then go and do a chargeback via their bank, forcing PayPal to take the money back from you.

If you use PayPal to buy digital goods, don't expect a refund - ever. It's completely at the sellers discretion. In other words, make sure you know exactly what you are buying. Don't turn around to the vendor after buying and say "Oh I assumed it would include XYZ. I want a refund" as the answer 99% of the time will be "Take a walk".
If you pay with a credit card through Paypal you can easily dispute to the cc company and get your money back. PayPal won't be able to do anything about it.
 

xIsabel38

Well-known member
#9
Nothing new. If you buy non physical goods, or a service on PayPal you have no protection at all, and rightly so.
I wouldn't call it "rightly so" at all. While you may have had buyers being douches and doing chargebacks, I've had a seller simply take the money and run off because they knew Paypal wouldn't investigate. How is that in anyway, "rightly so"? There's a grey area here and while I can see you're mad about buyers doing this to you, it doesn't mean there aren't sellers out there that do it to us.
 

Russ

Well-known member
#11
I've experienced the exact opposite. Digital goods arent covered for SELLER protection.
Ya not sure what these guys were talking bout, figured I was going crazy losing the disputes I did :D.


This transaction was reversed for the following reason(s):

Intangible items are not covered.

The payment has now been returned to the buyer and removed from your PayPal
balance. The chargeback fee charged by your buyer's credit card company
was also deducted from your PayPal balance.

To learn more about fees and how we investigate transactions, click "Legal
Agreements" at the bottom of any PayPal page and then click "PayPal User
Agreement."

If you have questions about chargebacks and how to avoid them, log in to
your PayPal account and click "Help" at the top of any page.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation. We appreciate your business.

Sincerely,
PayPal
 

Moshe1010

Well-known member
#12
Ya not sure what these guys were talking bout, figured I was going crazy losing the disputes I did :D.
That's because the buyer disputed through his/her credit card company. If they were paying with their PayPal balance, then they couldn't really win the case due to PayPal's policies.
 

Slavik

XenForo moderator
Staff member
#14
I've experienced the exact opposite. Digital goods arent covered for SELLER protection.
https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security

Buyer Protection
Items Not Covered
Intangible items like digital goods or services, real estate, motorised vehicles (of any kind), custom-made items, travel tickets, industrial machinery (for manufacturing), prepaid cards, or items that violate our policies or eBay’s policies, anything you buy in person, or money transfers to friends or family.
 

RickM

Well-known member
#18
Iv'e got a great example of buyer abuse going on right now.

A system I sell has a demo on the website. It's in English. The entire site is in English. There's a feature page listing all the features in English. There's a message on the bottom of the order page, in Engish saying that if you have any queries, please contact before ordering as once an order is placed and the software downloaded, no refunds will be provided.

Some git opened a dispute with the reason being that "I thought it would be in my language (Romanian) and would have some apis".

So yeah, in this instance PayPal should most certainly favour refusing to process chargebacks for digital goods.

Personally if I'm buying digital goods and it MUST be via PayPal I first ask either to see real world examples of people using it, or I ask around to see if anyone's had any issues. As well as the obvious due diligence that every sane person should do (i.e searching around for any reported issues, doing a background check on the seller, etc). I'd never buy high-value digital goods via PayPal, and any decent seller will have no issue using another provider that provides protection for both of you, such as escrow.com
 

Big Dan

Active member
#19
Last year, I had an issue where I ordered a VPS and paid with my PayPal balance. The company guaranteed instant provisioning which was really the only selling point as I was merging 3 forums into 1 and needed a staging server.

Fast forward 4 hours later and the VPS still isn't up. It's now 1 AM local time I promised my client the merge would be done by morning. I opened a support ticket an hour in to not having a VPS. They tech said the order was stuck in their fraud check system and they would clear it up but have to wait until billing opens at 9am. There was no explanation how or why I was triggered their anti-fraud system. Long story short I said waiting until morning was unacceptable and I would like a refund. They said no dice. I argued a bit, still no dice.

I opened a claim with PayPal stating that the problem was with the timeline. Don't guaranty instant provisioning then not deliver. PayPal denied my claim because it was digital goods and the owner of the company claimed my server was up instantly. I submitted screenshots with proof of the tech telling me I was stuff in their fraud system to no avail.

The wind up is not only did I lose the $120 VPS lease but I also lost out on the money I was supposed to make doing the gig. It was my first job for this client and she wasn't happy that the deadline wasn't met; Not her fault. In hindsight, the staging server should have been setup a couple days in advance.

Nowadays, I no longer keep a PayPal balance everything is funded through backup funding via my Debit Card. If I have a problem like this again I won't even bother with PayPal and just force a charge back through my bank.
 

RickM

Well-known member
#20
Nowadays, I no longer keep a PayPal balance everything is funded through backup funding via my Debit Card. If I have a problem like this again I won't even bother with PayPal and just force a charge back through my bank.
Word of warning - use that as a last resort. They will likely close your account and blacklist you for it as it's against the PayPal TOS. The only time it's allowed is if the transaction was fraudulent (i.e someone else used your account), which you'd have to prove.