The Demise of the United States is Inevitable

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Raise the minimum wage, the government will collect more taxes (in income and sales tax), the consumer will have more to spend, there will be more money in circulation, businesses will increase their revenues, hire more workers, who will spend more, thus increasing the multiplying effect.

Trickle down could only be sustained as long as there was easy credit, but since that bubble burst, as was inevitable with higher oil prices (thanks to the war in Iraq and saber rattling against Iran), the only way to reverse the downward trend is to trickle up, i.e., rebuild the economy from the bottom up.
You need to start it off with

Raise the minimum wage, businesses will lay off people to maintain a net neutral cash flow in poor economic times, the unemployment rate will rise, government will collect less revenue and will be forced to increase taxes, consumers and businesses will have less to spend creating a double dip recession.

Someone has to pay that initial increase in the minimum wage. Thats always the part that's overlooked.
 
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But I guess in your view, destroying the economy and getting paid millions for it is worse than, for instance, lying about having sex! Funny stuff!

I was active duty when all that went down. For the Commander in Chief to lie about something like that, and then pretty much get off scott free, when many that were in the service were getting dishonorable discharges for the same thing is not excusable in my book. I've seen career NCOs get kicked out on their can for getting a little on the side, yet the general feeling from JQ Public was it was OK for the President.

He should have been fired. Just like the individuals who were active duty were "fired".
 
I was active duty when all that went down. For the Commander in Chief to lie about something like that, and then pretty much get off scott free, when many that were in the service were getting dishonorable discharges for the same thing is not excusable in my book. I've seen career NCOs get kicked out on their can for getting a little on the side, yet the general feeling from JQ Public was it was OK for the President.

He should have been fired. Just like the individuals who were active duty were "fired".
As bad as that was, I didn't leave over that. I left over an ill conceived military action on Kosovo. All sides were in the wrong and we had no business putting US troops anywhere near that nightmare.
 
I was active duty when all that went down. For the Commander in Chief to lie about something like that, and then pretty much get off scott free, when many that were in the service were getting dishonorable discharges for the same thing is not excusable in my book. I've seen career NCOs get kicked out on their can for getting a little on the side, yet the general feeling from JQ Public was it was OK for the President.

He should have been fired. Just like the individuals who were active duty were "fired".

Rank has it privileges. That's repeated often in the military too!
I suppose back then hundreds were thrown out for telling the truth (they were gay, etc.).

Humans lie about sex. I would and I suppose you would in certain situations. If you would not, please start a religion so I can join it and worship you. ;)
 
If you want to understand how crazy people are about Clinton, I had a tennis partner who - when his game went bad - somehow figured out a path to blame it on Bill Clinton. Yes. True!

But history tells these tales. I throw my lot in with the public and historians rather than use ideology to determine who is decent and who is not (at the job, that is).....

"Clinton left office with an approval rating of 68 percent according to the CBS poll at the time"
and his ranking is in the top 50% of Presidents....which is nothing great, but beats a lot of them!

Politics, in the end, is about satisfying the people and history.
In any case, I don't see the Demise as coming soon. People have been walking around for centuries saying one thing or another about the sky falling, but I don't see it happening. It is in our interest, at least most of us, to live in a place with law and order (to whatever degree) and at least some attempts at progress.
 
You need to start it off with

Raise the minimum wage, businesses will lay off people to maintain a net neutral cash flow in poor economic times, the unemployment rate will rise, government will collect less revenue and will be forced to increase taxes, consumers and businesses will have less to spend creating a double dip recession.

Someone has to pay that initial increase in the minimum wage. Thats always the part that's overlooked.

Businesses have already laid people off. Hence the high unemployment.

Look, it's not rocket science. It's simple common sense. Raising the minimum wage is a stimulus for the overall economy. Where do businesses get their money? From the consumer. Businesses lay people off when the consumer doesn't have the money to spend. Our poor economic times are largely due to decades long wage stagnation, and the bursting of the credit bubble. Middle class and poor people are the spenders, rich people horde.

Look at San Francisco. They raised the minimum wage and have the lowest unemployment in a State that has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country. San Francisco's unemployment rate dropped to 7.8 percent in November, down from 8.1 percent in October and 9.5 percent in January 2011, according to the state's Employment Development Department.

The numbers don't lie.
 
I was active duty when all that went down. For the Commander in Chief to lie about something like that, and then pretty much get off scott free, when many that were in the service were getting dishonorable discharges for the same thing is not excusable in my book. I've seen career NCOs get kicked out on their can for getting a little on the side, yet the general feeling from JQ Public was it was OK for the President.

He should have been fired. Just like the individuals who were active duty were "fired".
The fact is if what Clinton did happened to any of us we would be in jail or at the very least lost our jobs.
 
Rank has it privileges. That's repeated often in the military too!
I suppose back then hundreds were thrown out for telling the truth (they were gay, etc.).

Humans lie about sex. I would and I suppose you would in certain situations. If you would not, please start a religion so I can join it and worship you. ;)

While rank does have its privileges, it does not give one leave to break the rules, or in the case of the military, it does not give one leave to break the law. The UCMJ is the Congressional Code of Military Criminal Law applicable to all military members worldwide. It should also apply to its Commander in Chief.
 
The fact is if what Clinton did happened to any of us we would be in jail or at the very least lost our jobs.
My goodness - we'd have to built 10,000 new jails if we locked up everyone who lied about sex.
This is usually avoided in the real world by SIMPLY NOT ASKING SUCH QUESTIONS.
 
I already feel that way (in a sense but less general) and have for a while...Law Enforcement, politicians, supporting agencies...these are the few people we are supposed to trust to keep our government a well oiled machine that should stay more transparent and less oppressive in nature.

These people are the supposed educated ones and we are supposed to rely on them and have faith in them...I don't have a problem with my government...in fact I love the system our government is actually intended to be run under.

I have a problem with people who have the knowledge to and take the oath to serve their country, not living up to their words.

I have a problem when a politician who is supposed to serve the people of the United States of America makes money with the same motion of his hands that cause the flock suffering.

I have a problem when police plant evidence to cover up illegal investigations or lie in official statements.

I have a problem when non-goverment entities have weight when it comes to effecting policy.

The trend as it appears in my eyes... is that people are the problem. But only the people who took an oath to serve the people and then neglect that duty for the benefit of political career or monetary gain for self.


To sum it up, the people who are making a mockery of the system need ejection...period. Otherwise one day no one not even the optimists will have faith in the system and then it WILL ultimately fail....unless that is the whole point and I didn't get the memo.

I agree, the people who are supposed to serve the public interest are the ones failing us.

A prime example of this is the SEC. People wonder why Wall Street bankers have not been held accountable for causing the economic meltdown. Look no further for the culprit than the SEC. A case involving the Citygroup Bank highlights this problem as one judge finally took a stand against the SEC.

Judge Blocks Citigroup Settlement With S.E.C.

Taking a broad swipe at the Securities and Exchange Commission’s practice of allowing companies to settle cases without admitting that they had done anything wrong, a federal judge on Monday rejected a $285 million settlement between Citigroup and the agency.

As it has in recent cases involving Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, UBS and others, the agency proposed to settle the case by levying a fine on Citigroup and allowing it to neither admit nor deny the agency’s findings. Such settlements require approval by a federal judge.

The agency in particular, Judge Rakoff argued, “has a duty, inherent in its statutory mission, to see that the truth emerges.” But it is difficult to tell what the agency is getting from this settlement “other than a quick headline.” Even a $285 million settlement, he said, “is pocket change to any entity as large as Citigroup,” and often viewed by Wall Street firms “as a cost of doing business.”

http://nyti.ms/uulE3U
 
Businesses have already laid people off. Hence the high unemployment.

Look, it's not rocket science. It's simple common sense. Raising the minimum wage is a stimulus for the overall economy. Where do businesses get their money? From the consumer. Businesses lay people off when the consumer doesn't have the money to spend. Our poor economic times are largely due to decades long wage stagnation, and the bursting of the credit bubble. Middle class and poor people are the spenders, rich people horde.

Look at San Francisco. They raised the minimum wage and have the lowest unemployment in a State that has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country. San Francisco's unemployment rate dropped to 7.8 percent in November, down from 8.1 percent in October and 9.5 percent in January 2011, according to the state's Employment Development Department.

The numbers don't lie.
Let the people who know comment.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/warrenm...t-rung-on-the-ladder-of-success-out-of-reach/

Hard to argue with Forbes.
 
Rank has it privileges. That's repeated often in the military too!
I suppose back then hundreds were thrown out for telling the truth (they were gay, etc.).
Not when it comes to that. I know of a three star general, vice commander of a AF Command who was bounced out, 1 year short of retirement for sexual misconduct - and it was while Clinton was CinC.

As for discharging gays, I was never in favor of that. US armed forces personnel are professional enough to handle anything, even gays serving openly. Hell, we knew who was gay. You just didn't care that much. Some made an issue of it to make a statement and thats where the problem comes in. Thats putting self before the mission. The mission comes first, down to the last drop of blood, the last heartbeat, the last moment of consciousness. Thats the blank check we all signed over.
 
The UCMJ is the Congressional Code of Military Criminal Law applicable to all military members worldwide. It should also apply to its Commander in Chief.

It could not possibly apply to the President. Who would be the President's commander, who is necessary to prefer charges? Who would be his Special Court Martial Convening Authority, who would refer charges and appoint the Art. 32 Investigating Officer? Who would be his General Court Martial Convening Authority, and what possible members would be eligible to sit on a court martial (CM) to judge their own commanding officer? Everyone necessary to conduct a CM would be ineligible to act on the case, including the military judge. With senior military members accused officers, these problems are easily addressed by their removal, temporary or permanent from command position, which can be done for any reason at all ("loss of confidence in ability to command"), but this only works because there is always someone senior to make that decision. Applying the UCMJ to the President could not possible work because there is no one senior to him in the chain of command to make the decisions necessary to even prefer charges.

I get the idea of no one being above the law. However, the UCMJ is both substantive and procedural and none of the procedures could apply to a President to make the substantive determinations of guilt or innocence. It just could not work.

All of the above sidetracking from the OP aside, the Demise of the US is neither inevitable nor is is imminent. Taking the really long view, the framework we have in place, under the Constitution, is plenty robust enough to deal with and adapt to any serious challenges. It may be ugly, slow, and not to every persons liking in dealing with issues that are more mundane like our budget issues, but the US, though not an unstoppable juggernaut in every single aspect, is in a different situation than countries like Greece, Italy, Portugal or Spain. Want evidence of this? After our credit rating was lowered, the value of Treasuries actually increased. Countries around the world still buy our debt and it is pretty much seen as the safest bet around the world by everyone. What people forget to take into account is that our economy is so strong (yes, I said it), that if we sneeze, the rest of the world catches a cold. In this respect, we are in essentially a zero sum game- one that does not seriously allow us to lose strength relative to other countries. If the US "falls apart" and all that debt that is owned by other countries loses value (and the other countries then lose proportionally). The question is not whether we are going to collapse altogether; it is whether the US will continue to be as strong as it has been in the past or could be if we pursued different policies. But, in a worst case scenario, we are not near the edge of "demise." Could things change in a hundred, two hundred, or five hundred years? Sure, I suppose so. But, just like the children of billionaires, the US is starting from such an advantaged position, it is hard to imagine not doing well in the future. Possible? Remotely, I guess. Likely? Hardly so.

That's my optimistic post of the day! Now, everyone, start planning for your New England Patriots victory celebration. I might be wrong about the last point; if the Giants do some magic, don't take that as sign of imminent US demise. Though, if you did, I would understand the sentiment!!!
 
Let me recommend a little reading: http://www.amazon.com/After-America-Get-Ready-Armageddon/dp/1596981008

The Constitution has not prevented our economic suicide and will not allow us to fix or reverse it. Activist judges have twisted the Bill of Rights to allow social decay and decline. Even the founders knew the Constitution is no guarantee of national longevity.

“The Constitution, on this hypothesis, is a mere thing of wax in the hands of the Judiciary, which they may twist and shape into any form they please.”
— Thomas Jefferson

“I go on the principle that a public debt is a public curse, and in a Republican Government a greater curse than any other”
— James Madison
 
Not persuasive (in my opinion).

I have not read or heard anything that makes me think the Judiciary is a "threat." Has worked just fine these past few hundred years. Most of what I hear or read about "activist" judges is just shorthand for saying that people disagree with the decision made by the judge. However, every case has a winner and a loser.
 

Can't question Forbes, eh? That opinion piece is as biased as they come.

It is often said that we now live in a "service economy." Most workers in service jobs are low income wage earners. There are millions of them throughout the country. And besides, I wasn't highlighting "helping the poor," an idea the author treats with elitist contempt so typical of right-wing pundits, I was talking about stimulating the economy. He is so narrowly focused on his ideology that he misses the point -- the point being that raising the minimum wage (for millions of workers) helps the economy at the same time that it helps the poor. But oh no, government mustn't do anything that might "help the poor," let them pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Meanwhile, corporate welfare is okay, right?
 
It will get worse before it gets better...but it will get better.
We've had two wars on our home fronts. Both were for freedom. A third is not unimaginable.
 
Terrible article.

Excellent comment.

....but the bottom line is that policies are written by the rich plutocrats, driven through Congress by paid lobbyists and accepted by Congressmen because they know they're dependent on money from those same lobbyist's bosses in order to get re-elected. The US is system is wholly bought and sold, through and through. And in an age of the Internet, a people's democratized media, we're able to see this, connect the dots, verify, and act on the knowledge.

Privileged people write economic policy and tax laws to favor themselves and to make life difficult for the rest. Pretending it's all about hard work and mobility is ridiculous, especially in a time when 3/4 of college grads can't get work in their fields and when most of our work is outsourced by multinationals who have no loyalty to this nation.

How would this be "fixed" ?
 
Simple....put a person who can't be compromised and doesn't value money over the constitution into power... Finding that person in a qualified individual is the complex part.
 
Since time immemorial, the Freds of the world (maybe Flintstone started it) have been walking around with signs about the End of The World as We Know It. Some actually believe it - their faith or their intuition tells them so. Others are just nattering nabobs of negatively and need to constantly vent - they see only one side of a multi-dimensional puzzle.

As I have already stated, we aren't going anywhere but to dust (each of us)..the world is gonna go on pretty much like it is right now - even without Fred, Myself and even without Xenforo someday. Yes, this too will pass.

The whole thing is one big Great Game. But the game goes on - it has already for hundreds of thousands of years (mankind) and is likely to continue.

Will the United States last forever? Of course not - no nation really does. But some just morph - Greece and Italy have been around in one form or another for thousands of years. China even longer. It may be that we eventually have certain regions become their own nations. Heck, we liberal states tend to get a bit tired of hearing our Confederate Brothers complaining all the time. If they want to secede, god speed to them. We'll still trade with them and everything will be honky dory (at least for us).

If I am wrong then y'all can come back and point to this post and tell me so.
 
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