Osama Bin Laden is dead!!
- Thread starter Dodgeboard
- Start date
- Status
jonsidneyb
Well-known member
Not as much as it should be. The thread did go a little bit off topic. This was addressing the off topic part of the thread.
iTuN3r
Well-known member
No what others think about US foreign Policies lol .
About as much as September 11 had to do with Iraq.
jmurrayhead
Well-known member
About as much as XenForo had to do with vBulletin's pissed off customers.
Ray
Active member
Where did I say I knew the man? I merely stated that I do not have to be influenced by media, but am more than clever enough to do my own research and base my opinion on that. You also seem to think that all media takes the same course.
Some channels most certainly will lean towards a specific angle. Fox to the right, the great majority of the Dutch media the exact other way. If you make sure you are aware of the bias in such channels, you can ensure you educate yourself and at least are exposed to both sides of the spectrum.
There are many, many cases where the media presented one version of "the truth", and where a bit of research will show something totally different.
But have it your way. I'll even go "Baa" if it'll make you happy. But being a guy coming from a farm, I'd advise you not to see that as an encouragement in any way. Baa means no
I would really like to know what influenced your opinions towards OBL, if you don't mind.
You have admitted to not know the guy and also that you do not have to be influenced by the media(which you later claim not to be the case, see paragraph 2). I can tell you that I neither like or dislike the guy, I haven't had the time, nor the resources to do my very own research. I surely won't just go and read what others want me to believe and base my opinions on that, even less now that the guy is dead and cannot speak for himself.
If people wanted to form their own opinion about me, it's only natural for them to meet me and get to know me.
Now, if they just based their opinions on what they were told by two unknown people, then they really don't know me and they cannot claim otherwise.
steven s
Well-known member
I agree Sept 11 and Iraq had nothing in common.
Johnny Large
New member
According to Bush.
Johnny Large
New member
All I'm saying is if the President says that a rogue country has WMDs, and could one day be used in terror attacks, and that it is urgent to remove such a threat, quite frankly the country shouldn't give a damn about what the UN says. If Bush is guilty of anything is of deceiving his own people, and lying about the info he had on hand.
steven s
Well-known member
We can discuss this ad infinitum. Clearly there was no plan, but there was an agenda. The war was staged for the media. Photo op after photo op.
Maybe even to make his poppa proud that he was a success at something.
Too late now.
World War II flashback: Germany invaded France, Poland, Soviet Union, bombed Britain because Hitler said so.
Would you hold Hugo Chavez accountable if he invades the U.S. and causes death to thousands of citizens? Or would he be only guilty of deceiving his own people, Venezuelans?
Johnny Large
New member
No, in fact the Iraq invasion was a pre-emptive war. It's what Britain and France should've done instead of seeking appeasement with the Nazis. Done before the day of horror can come, as Bush puts it.
I think that a President should not be held accountable because he was democratically elected, and shouldn't be judged by the actions he took as President.
I don't remember quite well but I think Spain wanted to explore charging Bush, and his aides because of the the killing of Spanish journalists in Iraq, at least preventing them from ever traveling to Spain. The community of nations should explore whatever options they deem necessary. But I think a country needs to protect their democratically elected officials.
In such a case Venezuela would have the right to protect their President from the US, for which I would wish them good luck.
Sadik B
Well-known member
That is an astonishing statement to make. So if a rogue (just an analogy, not calling Bush a rogue, though it's debatable) gets elected as chief of a country, he can do whatever he wants? So at the risk of again invoking Godwin's theorem, Hitler was not accountable because he got "elected". I personally think most democracies in the world, including US and India (both the countries I have experience in) are a sham. Why? Because our democracies operate within the boundaries set by vested interests. A man of integrity would find it impossible to get to the top. Anyways, we are straying impossibly far from the topic.
On topic, OBL is declared dead. I think this will have a tremendous boost to Obama's re-election campaign. Such a happy coincidence for OBL to show himself right on time when the US election season is just beginning.
Johnny Large
New member
You elect your officials for good or for bad. There are power checks and balances to limit the actions of the President, and if he is guilty for war crimes, then whole government should be tried for the Iraq War. The President decided it was appropriate to take action, and Congress gave its blessing. Now everyone who gave their blessing for the war, and those who voted for them, must stand by that decision, and affront the consequences. But not one single man should be tried for a democratic government's decisions.
OBL is dead, but the message is, Al-Qaida is not. I was 13 when the Iraq invasion took place. Likewise the Iraqi children who were 13 at the time are now 21, and I don't think they've grown to love America. The War on Terror has only worked to spread hatred towards America.
Obama is heading the right way I think, and hope others take his example. The US needs to be more intelligent, and less belligerent in its action against terror, and needs to stop inflaming anti-american sentiments when they do act.
OBL is dead, but the message is, Al-Qaida is not. I was 13 when the Iraq invasion took place. Likewise the Iraqi children who were 13 at the time are now 21, and I don't think they've grown to love America. The War on Terror has only worked to spread hatred towards America.
Obama is heading the right way I think, and hope others take his example. The US needs to be more intelligent, and less belligerent in its action against terror, and needs to stop inflaming anti-american sentiments when they do act.
DoctorWatsOn
Well-known member
You don't think that as a result of deceiving 'his people' and starting an illegal war, with the help of his lapdog Blair, he's not also guilty for the deaths of 100,000's in Iraq?
Johnny Large
New member
Guilty, absolutely, and I'm sure he's suffering from it. Triable, I think he shouldn't be.
SchmitzIT
Well-known member
Sorry, but are you really comparing me having an opinion on OBL to hearing something about some random person from two total strangers? And are you really suggesting that it is not possible to form an opinion on someone without meeting them? I happen to also have very strong opinions on Hitler, Stalin, Timothy McVeigh, The Dalai Lama, Mao, and even Jesus, despite never having talked to any of them. I guess that if you have not talked to them either, or had the time and/or resources to look into them, you cannot be sure whether you like or dislike those people either.
Do you suppose it is possible I could have looked at OBLs words and actions and let that help me form an opinion on him? As I stated, if you're aware of what particular political pants a certian media channel dons, it is possible to strip away the bias, and absord the facts. By ensuring one checks out both sides of the political spectrum, and perhaps moderate or objective sources to further enhance ones knowledge, one can thus enable oneself to form a better opinion. Yes, there are people who do believe in thinking for themselves, rather than relying on getting it all prechewed and spoonfed. Scary stuff, really.
Sure, I'll happily admit that whatever I saw of OBLs words was translated by someone other than me, as I do not happen to speak Arabaic, and as such, that translator's opinion might have shone through in his translation somehow, but I'll stick to thinking it sure is possible to form an opinion about someone without having to spend time with that person. More so if their actions and words are covered worldwide, and their actions speak louder than their words.
I still happen to have no desire to find out more about the type of person who would happly send other people on suicide missions to kill as many citizens as possible. I'm perfectly fine knowing that there are people out there hunting scum liket hat down and ensuring that people like you and me can live our lives. Yes, VERY insensitive of me, but oh well. Can't please them all, I suppose.
Lastly, if I wanted to form an opinion on you, I could easily just look at your own words. I don't need other people to make up my mind for me, as I'm perfectly capable of spending a few minutes reading. Based on what I manage to gather, I can then figure whether you would be someone I would want to hang out with, or someone who I could learn from or whether I'd not be interested in finding out more (it's the latter, I'm sorry to say).
And sure, that could cause me to miss out on a beautiful friendship, but I'm willing to take that risk.
Ray
Active member
Thanks for such a long reply, but I don't want you to waste your time. As you have stated, your opinions were greatly influenced by the media, that's a fact and that's my point.
Also, it would be interesting to know your opinion on me, based on my "words" lol. (if you have the time, of course.)
Also, it would be interesting to know your opinion on me, based on my "words" lol. (if you have the time, of course.)
SchmitzIT
Well-known member
Well, for one, you do not seem to grasp the difference between letting oneself be influenced by the media, or by being able to distill past the bias. My opinion of you is not relevant to this thread, though.
If you're genuinely interested, shoot me a PC. And in all honesty, I have to admit the comment about being unable or uninterested to learn more was tongue in cheek.
I've learnt that in life, that even your worst 'enemy' or biggest opponent might allow you to learn new valuable wisdom. Granted, in cases like OBL, I'd really consider that to be such a long shot that I'd not be willing to risk it, but those are few. I'm totally serious about the PC, by the way
- Status
Similar threads
- Question
- Question
